gabe's bbk track tested.

[bbq bob]

gabe , thank you , i dropped 6.0 sec. from the last time i was at willow springs. the BIG BRAKED KIT prefomed exceptionally. positive & preditable braking, no fade, ran cooler, ABS was not an issue, never engaged, ran deeper into the corners, which contributed in much better track times, i luv'em oh so much, cant wait for my back brake upgrade, for the money you would have to spend $1500 to get a better brake kit for our cars.

[SleeperSolara]

That's some definitely good feedback about the poor man's BBK.

[Dawgz]

gabe , thank you , i dropped 6.0 sec. from the last time i was at willow springs. the BIG BRAKED KIT prefomed exceptionally. positive & preditable braking, no fade, ran cooler, ABS was not an issue, never ingaged, ran deeper into the corners, which contributed in much better track times, i luv'em oh so much, cant wait for my back brake upgrade, for the money you would have to spend $1500 to get a better brake kit for our cars.

which rear brake upgrade? the 96 es300/camry ones?

[NXRACER]

i testify to seeing how well those brakes performed... they look & sound stock but literally did as good/better than big brake kits found on the many evos out there!! .... almost cool enuf to touch! very consistent. iwant that setup for my '92 Camry now

[LEE337]

Waiting on my rotors and Ill be installing mine.
Cant wait to get'em on.

[trd4life]

Thanks for the feedback guys!

[trdkamuri51o]

yep.. these are well worth it guys.. thank the OG's who came up wid them in the first place:

eric sol...

[bigbirdSCed]

i loved this mod when it was on my gen4 and will love it even more on my gen3 .

[Gibson99]

if only i had wheels big enough to fit these... but till i can get a set of is300 wheels, i don't see it happening. so for now i just installed a new set of hawk HPs on stock rotors with stock single piston calipers.

hey bob - you still have single pot calipers or did you upgrade to the duals?

are pad offerings basically the same for the dual pot calipers vs what we have available for the singles? i wouldn't want to upgrade to a better caliper if it meant i had to deal with crappier pads...

[Mr_Krispy1183]

^I recall seeing comparison pics showing that the dual-pots had significantly more pad surface area.

[Dawgz]

if only i had wheels big enough to fit these... but till i can get a set of is300 wheels, i don't see it happening. so for now i just installed a new set of hawk HPs on stock rotors with stock single piston calipers.

hey bob - you still have single pot calipers or did you upgrade to the duals?

are pad offerings basically the same for the dual pot calipers vs what we have available for the singles? i wouldn't want to upgrade to a better caliper if it meant i had to deal with crappier pads...

He did state that he went with the dual piston calipers.


and yes, the surface area of the dual piston caliper pads are larger than the stockies.

[RON]

if only i had wheels big enough to fit these... but till i can get a set of is300 wheels, i don't see it happening. so for now i just installed a new set of hawk HPs on stock rotors with stock single piston calipers.

hey bob - you still have single pot calipers or did you upgrade to the duals?

are pad offerings basically the same for the dual pot calipers vs what we have available for the singles? i wouldn't want to upgrade to a better caliper if it meant i had to deal with crappier pads...

Funny that you just posted this question! Here is my *answer* just posted on another thread:

"AS FAR AS THE DUAL ES FRONT Caliper (I know you're a big *FAN* )....just some info for others thinking of using the BIG brake kit. Yes, it has some advantages over the Stock calipers, but you would be surprised to know that the CLAMPING FORCE is *only* 3% more than the Stockers! The clamping force is directly proportional to the PISTON AREA..all other things being equal. PAD SIZE HAS NO EFFECT on clamping force! The diameter of the Stock piston is 2.37" with an area of 4.38 Sq in. The ES Dual has TWO pistons of 1.69 diam @2.25 Sq In for a total area of 4.50 Sq in. That's a differerence of .12 " or about 3% more for the ES duals. Yes...the duals are a bit *better* because you can spread the force over a larger area for less fade, but I don't think *fade* is going to be a problem for the stock pads with those MAMMOTH rotors running MUCH cooler!!
You could go with a bigger caliper (larger piston area) up front....BUT then you have a *problem*. First, the BALANCE would really be upset Front to back (you already have 20% more braking force up front with the Kit) and the PEDAL would go to the *floor* (more travel) with the same master Cyl and bigger pistons.
_________________


The pads on the fronts are a bit larger, but in my humble opinion, they don't provide any significant advantage over the stock pads. The ONLY advantage of a larger pad is>>>>Less fade and pad wear. Fade is not *inplay* because the HUGE TT rotor takes care of that problem big time. Pad size does NOT increase stopping power as I mentioned above. So...you can go to the DUALS..no problem...except you have to 1) buy another set of calipers and pads 2) do some mods to some the of the parts. Not worth the trouble in my book. BTW..I'm installing the Big Brake kit with STOCK calipers next week. I will also put the ES 300 rear rotor (3/4" larger on pre 1997) on the rears. You use the SAME caliper there (ES300 and Stock calipers for 1997-2000 Camry, 1999 Solara are the same as I recall) with an ES300 bracket (pre 1997) to accomodate the larger rotor.

Also ask yourself this:
WHY did Toyota would switch to the SINGLE piston for 1997 up Lexus/Camry Models if they were *inferior* in stopping power? Could it be that they found the duals less reliable or ??. Some think it was just a *money* thing...I don't think so.

[Dawgz]

if only i had wheels big enough to fit these... but till i can get a set of is300 wheels, i don't see it happening. so for now i just installed a new set of hawk HPs on stock rotors with stock single piston calipers.

hey bob - you still have single pot calipers or did you upgrade to the duals?

are pad offerings basically the same for the dual pot calipers vs what we have available for the singles? i wouldn't want to upgrade to a better caliper if it meant i had to deal with crappier pads...

Funny that you just posted this question! Here is my *answer* just posted on another thread:

"AS FAR AS THE DUAL ES FRONT Caliper (I know you're a big *FAN* )....just some info for others thinking of using the BIG brake kit. Yes, it has some advantages over the Stock calipers, but you would be surprised to know that the CLAMPING FORCE is *only* 3% more than the Stockers! The clamping force is directly proportional to the PISTON AREA..all other things being equal. PAD SIZE HAS NO EFFECT on clamping force! The diameter of the Stock piston is 2.37" with an area of 4.38 Sq in. The ES Dual has TWO pistons of 1.69 diam @2.25 Sq In for a total area of 4.50 Sq in. That's a differerence of .12 " or about 3% more for the ES duals. Yes...the duals are a bit *better* because you can spread the force over a larger area for less fade, but I don't think *fade* is going to be a problem for the stock pads with those MAMMOTH rotors running MUCH cooler!!
You could go with a bigger caliper (larger piston area) up front....BUT then you have a *problem*. First, the BALANCE would really be upset Front to back (you already have 20% more braking force up front with the Kit) and the PEDAL would go to the *floor* (more travel) with the same master Cyl and bigger pistons.
_________________


The pads on the fronts are a bit larger, but in my humble opinion, they don't provide any significant advantage over the stock pads. The ONLY advantage of a larger pad is>>>>Less fade and pad wear. Fade is not *inplay* because the HUGE TT rotor takes care of that problem big time. Pad size does NOT increase stopping power as I mentioned above. So...you can go to the DUALS..no problem...except you have to 1) buy another set of calipers and pads 2) do some mods to some the of the parts. Not worth the trouble in my book. BTW..I'm installing the Big Brake kit with STOCK calipers next week. I will also put the ES 300 rear rotor (3/4" larger on pre 1997) on the rears. You use the SAME caliper there (ES300 and Stock calipers for 1997-2000 Camry, 1999 Solara are the same as I recall) with an ES300 bracket (pre 1997) to accomodate the larger rotor.

Also ask yourself this:
WHY did Toyota would switch to the SINGLE piston for 1997 up Lexus/Camry Models if they were *inferior* in stopping power? Could it be that they found the duals less reliable or ??. Some think it was just a *money* thing...I don't think so.

to answer ur later statement, ask urself why toyota switched over from return style fuel systems to returnless.

answer: saving money on their end.

[bbq bob]

i've got the dual piston calipers and the red stuff ebc brake pads. as to why toyota went with cheaper calipers is because they are cheaper! cost is a big deal when making cars or bikes. you should ask harley why they changed thier crank bearings from the timkin bearing to roller bearings. they are cheaper to make and setup. toyota did the same thing. ron, you can stick with the cheap crap. you don't track anymore. i like the brakes. i'm looking forward to the rear setup. i've heard alot of crap about gabe's setup on this site. well i did the track test and for the cash invested this is one of my best upgrades. A+ for gabe's big brake kit.

[Midias]

i've got the dual piston calipers and the red stuff ebs brake pads. as to why toyota went with cheaper calipers is because they are cheaper! cost is a big deal when making cars or bikes. you should ask harley why they changed thier crank bearings from the timkin bearing to roller bearings. they are cheaper to make and setup. toyota did the same thing. ron, you can stick with the cheap crap. you don't track anymore. i like the brakes. i'm looking forward to the rear setup. i've heard alot of crap about gabe's setup on this site. well i did the track test and for the cash invested this is one of my best upgrades. A+ for gabe's big brake kit.

Do you also have the supra rotors?