exhaust help

[wid]

im new here and i currently have a 4 cylder 2000 se black solara and i want to get not just 1 one trd sports mufler but two is it possible and i herd about have a not true dual that what i want

[ThatVietGuy]

Are you new to English too?

From what I gather, you want a dual exhaust setup on a four cylinder? If that's the case, there's no point.

It's do-able, but completely unnecessary. You'll probably not have enough back pressure and your car will be even slower than it already is.

[sydemoid]

ummmmm unless you are planning to go turbo, there is no point at all. you will lose your bottom end torque, and the top end gain will not be much at all.

[Chinky420]

basically, only put it on if you want to have honduh syndrome.

honduh syndrome: oversized exhaust that creates lots of noise, but will take you until 2500 rpm to get any movement, since you have lost all your torque....i love watching these guys go from a stoplight (their exhaust revs REAL LOUD, but their car goes nowhere fast).

if you want just the look, then just get the TRD exhaust tip, and put it on your existing muffler/exhaust. if you try going with a dual exhaust, even a fake one, then you're still gonna lose low-end torque, due to the loss of backpressure (since you're gonna have to route two exhaust pipes off the same exhaust stream, meaning your backpressure will probably be cut in half, and be much more turbulent than it was with the stock exhaust...i.e. more popping sounds coming from the exhaust).

if you want to rock the solara in style, then drop it, get some wheels, and tint it. if you want to put a lip kit on it, then start saving for the kamanari TRD lip kit, which is IMO the only one that really looks decent on the solara (on a budget). most any exhaust 'upgrade' you're gonna do the 4 cylinder is not going to be worth it, since the performce losses will cancel out any style gains (it's hard to look cool when you're exhaust is super loud, and you're slower than stock).

sorry man, the 4 cyl isn't very conducive to performance modding, without going for forced induction. look around though, there have been some SGers that have done a turbo application to the 4cyl. it's expensive, but it's doable.

but if all you want is style, then go with what i said above, and also revamp your audio system while you're at it.


but it all comes down to the big questions of:
1) how much do you want to spend?
2) do you want performance, style, or both?
3) are you willing to sacrifice performance for style, and vice versa?

if you want to do performance modding, i'd suggest getting a civic (because of the ample aftermarket support), or i would look for a v6 solara. even with a V6 solara though, performance modding is expensive, and the gains are very incremental (unless you can find/afford a discontinued TRD supercharger).

good luck with whatever you decide. don't let me discourage you if you really want to do something unique (be ready to spend $). but this is what you should expect when looking into performance mods for the 4cyl.



now go to the introductions section and introduce yourself.

[wid]

ok ok ok so i'll just stick to my one exhaust but what do you guys mean by getting a trd exhaust tip i thought trd made trd exahust mufflerrs with the striaght bolt on method and if there is any trd tip then how come i never saw any

[Midias]

Dual with a Y pipe at the end of one single pipe would be fine the loss of back pressure would be no big deal sense it does not really matter anyway. Most people think that you need back pressure when it is really exhaust velocity you want to keep up. Really the ideal would be to plot both back pressure and exhaust velocity for the entire RPM range and find the pipe diameter when you have max velocity and min back pressure but sense that size pipe is most likely not realistic you do the best you can. I would say run 2.25 inch pipe and a single high flow resonator then split to a Y right before the muffler and add a second muffler if you want. True duals would probably not work well for a stock or near stock 4cyl. Something like this would be great



Also yes there is a bolt on axle back from TRD I think one is even for sale right now in the appropriate section.

Here is a quick read about hondas that might help it is not really in depth but no one wants to read five pages of crap anyway.

One of the most misunderstood concepts in exhaust theory is back-pressure. People love to talk about back-pressure on message boards with no real understanding of what it is and what it's consequences are. I'm sure many of you have heard or read the phrase "Hondas need back-pressure" when discussing exhaust upgrades. That phrase is, in fact, completely inaccurate and a wholly misguided notion.

I. Some Basic Exhaust Theory

Your exhaust system is designed to evacuate gases from the combustion chamber quickly and efficiently. Exhaust gases are not produced in a smooth stream; they originate in pulses. A 4-cylinder motor will have four distinct pulses per complete engine cycle, a 6-cylinder has six pules and so on. The more pulses that are produced, the more continuous the exhaust flow. Back-pressure can be loosely defined as the resistance to positive flow - in this case, the resistance to positive flow of the exhaust stream.

II. Back-pressure and Velocity

Some people operate under the misguided notion that wider pipes are more effective at clearing the combustion chamber than narrower pipes. It's not hard to see how this misconception is appealing - wider pipes have the capability to flow more air than narrower pipes. So, if they have the ability to flow more, why isn't "wider is better" a good rule of thumb for exhaust upgrades? In a word - VELOCITY. I'm sure that all of you have at one time used a garden hose without a spray nozzle on it. If you let the water run unrestricted out of the house it flows at a rather slow rate. However, if you take your finger and cover part of the opening, the water will flow out at a much much faster rate.

The astute exhaust designer knows that you must balance flow capacity with velocity. You want the exhaust gases to exit the chamber and speed along at the highest velocity possible; you want a FAST exhaust stream. If you have two exhaust pulses of equal volume, one in a 2" pipe and one in a 3" pipe, the pulse in the 2" pipe will be traveling considerably FASTER than the pulse in the 3" pipe. While it is true that the narrower the pipe, the higher the velocity of the exiting gases will be, you want make sure that the pipe is wide enough so that there is as little back-pressure as possible while simultaneously maintaining a suitable exhaust gas velocity.

Back-pressure in it's most extreme form can lead to reversion of the exhaust stream - that is to say the exhaust flows backwards, which is not good. The trick then, is to have piping that is as narrow as possible while also having as close to zero back-pressure as possible at the RPM range you want your power band to be located at. Exhaust pipe diameters are best suited to a particular RPM range. A smaller pipe diameter will produce higher exhaust velocities at a lower RPM but create unacceptably high amounts of backpressure at higher RPMs. Thus, if your power band is located within the 2-3000 RPM range you'd want a narrower pipe than you would if your power band is located within the 8-9000 RPM range.


Many engineers try to work around the RPM specific nature of pipe diameters by using setups that are capable of creating a similar effect to a change in pipe diameter on the fly. The most advanced system is Ferrari's, which consists of two exhaust paths after the header. At low RPMs, only one path is open so as to maintain exhaust velocity, but as the RPMs climbs and exhaust volume increases, the second path is opened to curb back-pressure. Since there is greater exhaust volume there is no loss in flow velocity. BMW and Nissan use a simpler and less effective method: there is a single exhaust path to the muffler; the muffler itself has two paths; one path is closed at low RPMs but both are open at higher RPMs.

III. So How Did this Myth Come to Be?

I often wonder how the myth "Hondas need backpressure" came to be. Mostly I believe it stems from a misunderstanding of what happens with the exhaust stream as pipe diameter changes. For instance, someone with a Civic decides to uprade the exhaust with 3" diameter piping. Once it's installed, the owner notices that the car seems to have lost a good bit of power throughout the power band. He makes the connections in the following manner: "My wider exhaust eliminated all back-pressure but I lost power, therefore the motor must need some back-pressure in order to make power." What he didn't realize is that he killed off all of his flow velocity by using such a ridiculously wide exhaust pipe. It would have been possible for him to achieve close to zero back-pressure with a much narrower pipe; in that way he would not have eliminated his flow velocity.

IV. So Why is Exhaust Velocity So Important?

The faster an exhaust pulse moves, the better it can scavenge out all of the gases spent during valve overlap. The guiding principles of exhaust pulse scavenging are a bit beyond the scope of this FAQ but the general idea is that a fast moving pulse creates a low pressure area behind it. This low pressure area acts as a vacuum and draws along the air behind it. A similar example would be a vehicle traveling at a high rate of speed on a dusty road. There is a low pressure area immediately behind the moving vehicle; dust particles get sucked into this low pressure area causing it to collect on the back of the vehicle. This effect is most noticeable on vans and hatchbacks which tend to create large trailing low pressure areas, giving rise to the numerous "wash me please" messages written in the thickly collected dust on the rear door(s).

VI. Conclusion

So it turns out that Hondas really don't need much backpressure; instead, they need as high a flow velocity as possible with as little back-pressure as possible.

[JamesT]

Midias, that info was fantastic.

[wid]

ooooohhhhhh the problemo here is i live florida an the mufflwer shop told the same bull with loss of power but this single high flow resonator with split a Y right before the muffler is guniues but would i have to order the piping

[Midias]

^ I cannot answer the question of what you would have to order for piping some performance shops carry Y pipes and other things of a similar nature. They can be found in many online stores and on ebay. You want something like this.

[funboy102]

That was a really good article Midias. I actually read the whole thing. So for the Solara...

5S-FE and 2AZ-FE, 2.25" after the headers would be good,

and 1MZ-FE, 2.5" after the y-pipe would be good?

What is stock for both anyways?

[Midias]

That was a really good article Midias. I actually read the whole thing. So for the Solara...

5S-FE and 2AZ-FE, 2.25" after the headers would be good,

and 1MZ-FE, 2.5" after the y-pipe would be good?

What is stock for both anyways?

Yup that would be just about right. If I remember correctly stock for the v6 is ~2.25 OD and the I4 is ~ 2.0 od. I say approximately because I think they are actually metric pipe sizes and are not a nice even english measurement.

Not sure if this will help but maybe

http://www.solaraguy.com/viewtopic.php?t=42341

[Chinky420]

there's midias....i was waiting for you to chime in on this exhaust inquiry.


wid: i'd trust what midias says regarding exhaust stuff.

[Midias]

there's midias....i was waiting for you to chime in on this exhaust inquiry.


wid: i'd trust what midias says regarding exhaust stuff.

I hear that a lot probably because I build or buy a new solara exhaust every few months. But I think my new one is here to stay with the possible addition of obx headers with the resonator cut out and modded for a highflow cat.