I think clutch, mechanic says misfire...

[Andrew]

Hey, all -- I need to know what I'm missing here.

I've got a 2001 V6 with a 5-speed and about 77,000 miles.

For the past few months, I've noticed that when I'm driving at normal engine speed (say, 2500 RPM) and hit the gas, the engine revs high (4000+) but the car doesn't move much -- it takes a bit before it picks up speed.

I replaced my plugs with NGK Iridiums, but no change. I hit the gas and the engine revs high. If I accelerate gently there's not much of a problem, and if I'm already at 3500 RPM it's also OK. But from a cruising engine speed it revs way up.

I'm thinking worn clutch. The Haynes manual says the same thing. I brought it in to the local shop. They take it for a test drive and call me to say, "It's not the tranny or the clutch. You're misfiring. You need a tune up and new plugs and wires (well, coils)."

I told them about the new plugs. They say that it's probably an ignition thing. They don't have to replace all three coils -- they can test them all (for $95) and tell me which it is. But they insist it's not the clutch. (Heck, they'd make more money if it was!)

Maybe I'm getting old, but high revs and delayed power always says "clutch" to me. Are these guys right? The coils are original.

Thanks for your help!

[ThatVietGuy]

Go back to that shop and give them the finger.

If the car was misfiring it would have trouble revving up if anything, not rev freely.

I also say it's the clutch.

[Andrew]

What's odd is that I brought that up -- that the engine is running smoothly, and that this was a classic clutch symptom. The guy at the desk said it was their top guy who looked at it.

And heck, it's better for them if it *was* the clutch. Go figure.

Oh, this is a local Midas with a good reputation. So it's not "Jimmy's Auto Repair and Bait Shop."

[shakes head] I think I'll bring it to a tranny shop for a second opinion.

[(K)]

Put it in second and slowly release the clutch. If the car moves then your clutch is good, if not, the finger option is recommended. Then replace the clutch.

Someone told me to shift straight to 5th from second while at cruising speed (30 mph or w/e) and hold it to the floor after you let the clutch engage. If the revs go up then you're golden, if not (or if it goes down) then you're not so golden...

[Andrew]

Just to be sure: You mean put it in second from a standstill, right?

I like that -- a simple test. Gonna go try it.

[Andrew]

OK, I tried both things.

From a standstill (actually rolling back just a bit -- I was on a slight hill), I put it in second. As I slowly released the clutch it moved forward normally. No racing, just sluggish as you'd expect from being in second instead of first.

Then I drove down the street at about 30 while in second. I shifted to fifth and floored it. It lugged a little, but the tach jumped to about 3000 very quickly.

So does this mean it's not my clutch?

So what else could cause those high revs when I floor it in 5th on the highway?

[1gSE]

sounds like its slipping. I'm not sure if it would show up as often with normal driving, but you'd definitely know if you were shifting at WOT. It would sound like a n00b that won't take his foot off the clutch

[Midias]

I would say clutch but that is heulla early for it to go try bleeding the system and checking the fluid level.

[(K)]

It jumped to 3000 rpm without moving accordingly (the car)?

Sounds like early signs of glazing and wear.

[Andrew]

Sorry -- I said that wrong. It didn't jump to 3000, it lugged in fifth and slowly made its way up. The engine wasn't racing, and remember, I was flooring it.

I'm going to try the "Try to start in fifth with your foot on the brake" trick today.

[(K)]

^Never heard of that technique before, but it doesn't sound like it'll do anything...

All in all it sounds like your clutch checks out fine though.

Misfires would cause your car to run rough and usually the computer will throw a code, then you'll see the dreaded Check Engine Light.

Any more symptoms you can give us? Is there a rough idle? Crappy gas mileage? Random stuttering?

So far, from what I gather, applying a load doesn't give any response. We might end up with an air and fuel issue here. These things are tricky, I'd say bring it to a place that can pull codes for you for any underlying codes. Most times the computer requires certain systems to fail diagnostics and startup tests several times before condemning it to "CEL". Not to mention it has a slight window to compensate for any driveability issues as we see here. You're probably on your way to a CEL, it's a good thing you caught it earlier.

In either case, check your trunk, might have a dead body in there weighing you down lol.

[Andrew]

No CEL (yet), and the engine runs smoothly at all RPMs. And yes, applying a load gives a slow response -- At 45 in fourth gear, if I floor it the engine can easily hit 5000 RPM before the car starts to move.

OTOH, if I'm already at, say, 4000 RPM and hit the gas, it's much more responsive.

I spoke to the mechanic moments ago and asked, "How is it that the engine is running smoothly if it's misfiring?"

He told me that it's misfiring under load -- which is why it seems to run well until I hit the gas. At that point the misfiring begins, and because it's revving high and it's a V6, I don't notice they way I would on a four-cyl.

The obvious problem, he said, was the ignition system. And because the coils and wires are original and I'm at 77K, it's an even better bet.

I just hate to throw out $300+ on coils and wires only to find there's nothing wrong.

[Midias]

screw that for coils I am at 160k and my original coils are perfect and I even have a plasma booster installed.

[Andrew]

All right, lemme ask this.

<b>I'm cruising at about 65 in fifth gear -- about 2700 RPM. I floor it. What *should* happen in terms of engine speed and vehicle speed?</b>

Right now, the engine will rev up to about 5000 almost immediately and the car will begin to accelerate slowly. It won't slam my head into the seat -- it's a gentle acceleration.

The engine revs will take a few seconds to drop to, say, 3000-3200 and the speed will reach 70 or 75. At that point hitting the gas will have a much more direct effect. But at lower engine speeds, there's that engine surge before the speed catches up.

No knocks, no roughness.

[ThatVietGuy]

That has to be a clutch slip