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290.7 hp, 273.3 lbft, with an auto

Postby SdeA » Wed Oct 21, 2009 12:37 am

Nice number Frank
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Postby PhreakdOut » Wed Oct 21, 2009 4:06 am

Of all the dyno manufacturers, Dynapack does report the highest numbers. This is partly becuase it is done with the wheels off. However, the numbers are the most consistant. Run A vs Run B.

Keep going to this dyno for A to B results but take the HP numbers with a grain of salt when comparing to the Heartbreaker Mustang Dyno or Dyno Dynamics. Taken on a Mustang Dyno, you might run 230. Regardless, these are VERY respectable numbers. Consistancy is the most important thing when it comes to dyno pulls.

What were your last dyno readings and what have you done since then? Just curious the impact of your latest mods.
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Postby jetbtkng » Wed Oct 21, 2009 9:04 am

i ran 248 on 4lbs boost while i broke the engine in, i dont think these folks would put thier reputations at risk if the dynopak was not that accurate,

Testimonials:



“ For R&D purposes, the Dynapack has proven to be an invaluable asset to our business. The dyno allows our engineers to create precise fuel injection programs by simulating various load situations. The hub mounted design prevents any data loss that might occur from wheel spin on higher horsepower applications. Excellent technical service, constantly improving software, and a wide array of accessories make the Dynapack dynamometer our number one choice for tuning.”
-Toshi Hayama, Apex Integration Inc.



“I would like to compliment Dynapack on their new chassis dyno design. Our unit has performed flawlessly. The repeatability is excellent. Dynapack has re-invented the chassis dyno. If you’re not using a Dynapack, you’re using yesterday’s technology.”
-Bob Giese, Toyota Racing Development





"DC Sports built and continues to maintain its reputation by producing high quality components that maximize performance. The Dynapack 3000 plays an important role in this process because of its portability and ease of use. With its ability to perform fixed-speed and fixed-load tests, we are able to test multiple design iterations accurately without the inconsistencies found in inertia- or drum-type dynos."
- Steve Schmidt, DC Sports







I love my Dynapack dyno!!! It has become the central part of our engine development program. I consider it to be a true engine dyno even though it's driven at the wheels. It gives me 100% repeatability and the actual usable HP/TQ figures, right where it counts....at the wheel!! I have a relatively small shop and the Dynapack is so compact and portable it fits any where....and totally out of the way when not in use.

Hands down the best Dyno for the $$$$.

- Rick DeMan, DeMan Motorsport



“I can honestly say that every car has been improved, in some cases dramatically. Try as I may, I can not find any application that this dyno falls short of in our expectations... (It) has proven to be very easy to use... This is truly the most accurate dyno I have ever used.”
-Tony Devos, BMW Master Technician
(Tony liked the dyno so much, he joined the company soon afterward!)






“We’ve never been able to see the difference between our qualifying and our race setups on a dyno before - now we KNOW what makes a difference!”
-David Ridling, YELLOW Racing (NASCAR Busch Grand National team)
all dyno's read different, and dynopak is rite in the middle of all of them, as for your hp estimate, your wrong................. :drinking:
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Postby akora12 » Wed Oct 21, 2009 9:20 am

^Nobody is arguing dynapack isn't accurate, you just can't compare the numbers to other dynos.
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Postby sydemoid » Wed Oct 21, 2009 9:21 am

Impressive #'s...

I'm looking into possibly re-building my 1MZFE, or building a 3MZ/1MZ Hybrid.... I have to save up though, and since I'm not SC'd.... yet, hold out til the M90 monster is ready.... hehehe

Ummm yeah I'm auto :(..... but these results give me hope that the tranny can handle the higher HP and TQ.
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Postby Chinky420 » Wed Oct 21, 2009 9:41 am

have you done any upgrades to the tranny frank? i can't imagine our auto's being able to handle much more than what you're putting down.

have you at least thrown a tranny cooler on?
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Postby jetbtkng » Wed Oct 21, 2009 9:53 am

ya i got a huge tranny cooler on it, and i talked to gabe, and doug a.k.a. squatch, and they say the tranny should be fine, so i hope it'll be fine, if not 5 speed conversion will fix it, lol....................... :drinking:
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Postby bbq bob » Wed Oct 21, 2009 3:39 pm

i'm running 272 hp with an auto at the track. no problems yet. i think it will hold on for a while. the more i run it the better it shifts.
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Postby crispone » Wed Oct 21, 2009 4:09 pm

On the matter of dyno's and such...


As mentioned previously, it's all about run "A" vs run "B" with the two representing either SAME setup and the two (or more) runs netting consistent numbers when one is concerned with the ability of the dyno (whatever brand it may be) to MEASURE a given value of performance repeatably. That's always hurdle number 1.

...when talking about relative IMPROVEMENT in performance from run "A" vs "B" then the dyno MUST first be capable of the above... THEN the two runs with varied setups will provide the INCREMENTAL improvement from one run to the next. THAT'S what every testimonial in the earlier post is praising. Good deal. Sounds like the dyno you are on is in and of itself "capable" of accurate, repeatable results.



Now the STICKY part...

When we begin to compare ABSOLUTE NUMBERS between different cars on DIFFERENT DYNO'S, the entire discussion takes a major dive. Issue here is, each dyno may be capable and repeatable, but NOT necessarily CALIBRATED (nor designed) to READ (or MEASURE) the same values inherent to it's function of ascertaining performance. The solution is two fold:

1) Get a BASELINE value on whatever dyno you are running with a STOCK setup (with "known" values relative "known" or "proven" dyno models) and then provide subsequent data from runs AFTER modification...

OR

2) Get comparable numbers off the SAME dyno for the cars being compared. (Preferably under consistent conditions... climate, elevation, etc...)


Of course, the ultimate objective of any dyno (used correctly or OTHER than for out-n-out dyno-shootout purposes) is to aid in the TUNING PROCESS, or otherwise provide a relative performance number for approximate comparison purposes, especially when different dyno's or conditions are involved.

Everyone should also understand that dyno's can be "set up" to read differing values relative their calibration or initial parameters which can often be "off-set" to compensate for temperature and elevation, etc... or even reflect "crank" HP as opposed to WHP with pre-assumed parasitic loss values entered into them.

Finally, I have had MANY MANY runs on dyno's with motorcycles, and in year over year runs on the SAME DYNO in similar conditions with the same bike, had BOTH perfectly consistent (within ONE HP of each other) results AND seen upwards of 5~10% in other instances. Also, running on "steady-state" dyno on true eddy current -vs- basic power "sweep" runs on a drum, I've seen better than 20% variance with the same bike with nearly same tune. One bike I had ran low 150's repeatedly until I was at a "stunt-show" with a DYNO-CONTEST and it ran 178WHP on that one. I don't think so.

An additional consideration (especially with a "drum-sweep" run), you have to realize that the PEAK horsepower value is often a "momentary BLIP" in the chart or reading, and NOT representative of your power under the curve in the meat of where you actually DRIVE and USE it. (Generally at the TOP of the RPM band, and noted as a "spike" in the curve) Keep in mind that TORQUE is what accelerates you... and the earlier and more abruptly it comes on... along with HOW QUICKLY the motor can SPOOL through it has a big bearing on how HARD your vehicle pulls and strong it really is in real world driving. I've had bikes that "only" read lower 150's in absolute HP at the rear wheel, but absolutely WALKED all over bikes that could hit upper 160's and even lower 170's on the same dyno!

LASTLY, NONE of this is to take any credit, credibility, nor recognition away from anyone's numbers! :wink: The near 300 numbers posted in here by several are fantastic for these cars any way you slice it, and definitely show that there is some substantial modification and tuning going on out there... much to the credit of those who take the time and effort (AND CASH!) to achieve them! KUDOS! :drinking:



...now... just as soon as I get my Supra back out of the shop... I'll get some baseline runs with the current setup WITHOUT the meth/water injection I need to REALLY turn up the wick... and we'll see how far into the 400's I can get at a modest 17~18psi on pump gas. 8)




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Postby SpeedySolara » Wed Oct 21, 2009 4:27 pm

Congrats Frank, those are some pretty impressive ponies you're getting out of your Solara. Just when I thought I was catching up to your mods you pulled away by a long streth with the engine rebuild :D
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Postby PhreakdOut » Wed Oct 21, 2009 4:35 pm

jetbtkng wrote:i ran 248 on 4lbs boost while i broke the engine in, i dont think these folks would put thier reputations at risk if the dynopak was not that accurate,

Testimonials:



“ For R&D purposes, the Dynapack has proven to be an invaluable asset to our business. The dyno allows our engineers to create precise fuel injection programs by simulating various load situations. The hub mounted design prevents any data loss that might occur from wheel spin on higher horsepower applications. Excellent technical service, constantly improving software, and a wide array of accessories make the Dynapack dynamometer our number one choice for tuning.”
-Toshi Hayama, Apex Integration Inc.



“I would like to compliment Dynapack on their new chassis dyno design. Our unit has performed flawlessly. The repeatability is excellent. Dynapack has re-invented the chassis dyno. If you’re not using a Dynapack, you’re using yesterday’s technology.”
-Bob Giese, Toyota Racing Development





"DC Sports built and continues to maintain its reputation by producing high quality components that maximize performance. The Dynapack 3000 plays an important role in this process because of its portability and ease of use. With its ability to perform fixed-speed and fixed-load tests, we are able to test multiple design iterations accurately without the inconsistencies found in inertia- or drum-type dynos."
- Steve Schmidt, DC Sports







I love my Dynapack dyno!!! It has become the central part of our engine development program. I consider it to be a true engine dyno even though it's driven at the wheels. It gives me 100% repeatability and the actual usable HP/TQ figures, right where it counts....at the wheel!! I have a relatively small shop and the Dynapack is so compact and portable it fits any where....and totally out of the way when not in use.

Hands down the best Dyno for the $$$$.

- Rick DeMan, DeMan Motorsport



“I can honestly say that every car has been improved, in some cases dramatically. Try as I may, I can not find any application that this dyno falls short of in our expectations... (It) has proven to be very easy to use... This is truly the most accurate dyno I have ever used.”
-Tony Devos, BMW Master Technician
(Tony liked the dyno so much, he joined the company soon afterward!)






“We’ve never been able to see the difference between our qualifying and our race setups on a dyno before - now we KNOW what makes a difference!”
-David Ridling, YELLOW Racing (NASCAR Busch Grand National team)
all dyno's read different, and dynopak is rite in the middle of all of them, as for your hp estimate, your wrong................. :drinking:


First off Frank, did you read my post before scrambling to the Dynapak website for non-biased testimonials? Here's the link to your hard research.

http://www.dynapackusa.com/testimonials.htm

It is widely known Dynapak reports this highest numbers. Please don't go back to the Dynapak website looking for this information. That's OK. Big F'ing deal. It makes sense that they do. There is no issue of tire slippage, unsprung wheel weight, the loose chassis straps or tire pressures to throw off the numbers on an A to B comparison.

I did say "However, the numbers (from a Dynapak) are the most consistant. Run A vs Run B. "

I also said not to compare your numbers to other dynos. That is comparing apples to gorillas. The Mustang Dyno "Known as the Heartbreaker" gives extremely low numbers. I was not saying the Mustang Dyno is correct (or better) than all other dynos.

Take another look at my post and ask around. Dynapak is NOT in the middle. If it was, then it would be incorrect. Remember, no wheels and other variables?

Oh, and by the way, when you are saying "you are", the proper contraction is you're.
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Postby 02slera » Wed Oct 21, 2009 5:44 pm

well the numbers are very nice, though i can see what people are saying about its hard to compare those numbers to any other dyno. but the way i see it is if your at 290hp on the hubs then sure its a little less WITH wheels, but also a lot more at the crank. or am i completely wrong and know nothing about dyno's? lmao!
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Postby jetbtkng » Wed Oct 21, 2009 6:45 pm

well here is a comparison of different dyno's, Turbo Magazine Dyno Dash Comparison Chart
Dyno HP TQ
Dynapack 249.4 242.8
DTS 257.6 XXXX
Dynojet (Win) 235.8 227.8
Dynojet (DOS) 243.7 237.2
Clayton 265.7 240.6
Super Flow 228.9 226.6, http://www.turbomagazine.com/tech/0306t ... index.html , and for sure dynopak isnt the most generous.............. :drinking:
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Postby crispone » Wed Oct 21, 2009 7:38 pm

jetbtkng wrote:well here is a comparison of different dyno's, Turbo Magazine Dyno Dash Comparison Chart
Dyno HP TQ
Dynapack 249.4 242.8
DTS 257.6 XXXX
Dynojet (Win) 235.8 227.8
Dynojet (DOS) 243.7 237.2
Clayton 265.7 240.6
Super Flow 228.9 226.6, http://www.turbomagazine.com/tech/0306t ... index.html , and for sure dynopak isnt the most generous.............. :drinking:



I think I remember that article...


Yup... about 14% range with all other variables being equal. Actually fairly close for pure dyno variance, I'd say.


Anyway... good numbers are good numbers! I still stand by my experience on dyno's in general.


Heck, I'm interested in a 500HP ticket off my Supra someday REGARDLESS of what dyno I get it on! Just to hit that number is a long-term goal I've had for over a dozen years!


...maybe I need to find one 'o them CLAYTON dyno's! 8)




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Postby RON » Wed Oct 21, 2009 11:21 pm

PhreakdOut wrote:Of all the dyno manufacturers, Dynapack does report the highest numbers. This is partly becuase it is done with the wheels off. However, the numbers are the most consistant. Run A vs Run B.

Keep going to this dyno for A to B results but take the HP numbers with a grain of salt when comparing to the Heartbreaker Mustang Dyno or Dyno Dynamics. Taken on a Mustang Dyno, you might run 230. Regardless, these are VERY respectable numbers. Consistancy is the most important thing when it comes to dyno pulls.

What were your last dyno readings and what have you done since then? Just curious the impact of your latest mods.


Dynopac runs *around* +10/15HP over Dynojet. The quote below is from Church site where Frank went. BTW, his #s are awsome, considering it's an AT! For reference, I have a 5Speed with 5.5 LB boost and Ypipe mod with Catback. I went to the SAME place to dyno and got 258WHP/260Ft Torque...again SAME DYNO.

From Church Automotive:
This is why we recommend people use a rough percentage adjustment to estimate flywheel hp on the Dynojet versus a rough fixed adjustment on the Dynapack. In our experience, a manual transmission FWD car will lose 20-25 hp to the hubs on the Dynapack. A RWD car will lose 25-30 hp and an AWD car about 35-40 hp (the FWD case has been verified on an engine dyno). In contrast, losses on the Dynojet will be in the 12-14% range for FWD and 14-16% for RWD (opinions vary).

Let's work through a comparative example for the same car on a Dynapack and Dynojet.

Car A produces 205 hp to the hubs on the Dynapack. This would equate to between 225-230 hp at the flywheel. The same car produces 195 hp to the rollers on a Dynojet. This would equate to 222-226 hp at the flywheel. Furthermore, the difference in power matches up very well with our calculated difference due to inertial losses. And interestingly enough, we have tested just such a car on our Dynapack and a Dynojet back to back with the same results (actually 196 vs. 206 hp).

Let us then assume that we modify Car A to produce 25 hp more at the flywheel (maybe a good head port and set of camshafts). The car would now produce almost 230 hub hp on the Dynapack, but on the Dynojet it would produce 217.5 hp. Same car, but the difference between the two dynos has grown from 10 to 12.5 hp, largely due to inertial effects.

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