injen sound

[v6secamry]

get the cp-e! more performance

edit: hey dude, we are local, maybe a setup a mini meet with some other camrys/ solaras and you can ride in my car too see how the cp-e performs

[Aotoyota]

thanks for the input everyone, although i forgot a tidbit of info,

im got a 2az motor, and another question, is it carb legal for cali?
plus i thought intake = less mileage, i read on a different thread that
they got some more?

cheers!

[PXLpainter]

Injen on Gen 2 V6 = higher, raspy (ricey) sound with no performance gains over a drop in K&N filter.

You need a CP-e if you're looking for a lower growl and actual performance gains.

*edit: NOTHING after-market is legal in CA

[Aotoyota]

wow thx pxlpainter. that answers my question. I dont want more noise. thanks guys!

[panic]

The "seat of the pants" stuff isn't as reliable an indicator as you might suppose.
Predictably, there is a tendency for people who have saved money, planned carefully, chosen the device they want and finally driven it not to say "Well, that was money flushed down the rat hole. I'm an idiot, and this was pointless."
"Seeing" only what you expect to see (and if you're an optimist, what you want to see) is not only normal, it's universal - everyone does it.

The body is only capable of perceiving changes in input (vectors, temperature, weight, loudness) of about 5%. Below that threshold, you may notice a vague change but how much, in which direction? 5% is when you know what you have, + or -.
Testing a car after every small change will not be very satisfying, because you're only comparing C (the most recent change) to B (the previous mod), rather than to baseline A (no change). If you change 6 things that give an invisible 3% each, you'll never "feel it" until you time it or dyno it (or some other non-subjective standard), but you still have +19.4% (+3%^6).

How do worthless bits get favorable reviews?
Especially for engines already highly tuned, any improvement is not only difficult and technically complex, but is generally a compromise (cams move the power upstream, exhaust loses some low speed, high compression retards the spark).
Read some tests of aftermarket chips - of 10 cars (provided by the chip manufacturers, suuure I believe they're stock):
2 of them will not run ("it never did this before")
2 do not complete the test
3 are slower than stock at every speed
1 is about the same as stock - after 6 hours work
2 are slightly faster, but get 15 mpg, overheat and have no torque below 3,000 RPM

Then how did some of those buyers say it worked great?
Very simple.
The car produces 90% of stock power until 4,000 RPM, then 102% above that. The net result is a loss (except for actual racing with full throttle upshifts), but it feels great because "you get kicked back in the seat at 4,000, then it really takes off!!".
The abrupt change from less power to stock power is what they expected to see, what they wanted to see - so they were happy when they got it. The transition was the only thing perceptible.
Noise, of course, makes everything more intense (you're going faster) and masks the other physical sensations (acceleration). A loud muffler + 95% power is always labeled a success.

Has anyone seen a quarter mile and top speed test using a box-stock low mileage car with no preparation for SRI, CAI, exhaust, chip etc. done separately?
A straight back-to-back A:B comparison?

This is why I've confined my actual research and mods to engines so primitive that anything at all is helpful.

Currently working on the 1937-63 Chevrolet "stovebolt" and G.M.C. L6 engines: http://victorylibrary.com/235BK.htm

Already completed: 1955-67 Chrysler, DeSoto, Dodge, Plymouth "polyspheric" (semi-hemi) V8 engines: http://victorylibrary.com/POLY.htm

[crispone]

The "seat of the pants" stuff isn't as reliable an indicator as you might suppose.
Predictably, there is a tendency for people who have saved money, planned carefully, chosen the device they want and finally driven it not to say "Well, that was money flushed down the rat hole. I'm an idiot, and this was pointless."
"Seeing" only what you expect to see (and if you're an optimist, what you want to see) is not only normal, it's universal - everyone does it.

The body is only capable of perceiving changes in input (vectors, temperature, weight, loudness) of about 5%. Below that threshold, you may notice a vague change but how much, in which direction? 5% is when you know what you have, + or -.
Testing a car after every small change will not be very satisfying, because you're only comparing C (the most recent change) to B (the previous mod), rather than to baseline A (no change). If you change 6 things that give an invisible 3% each, you'll never "feel it" until you time it or dyno it (or some other non-subjective standard), but you still have +19.4% (+3%^6).

How do worthless bits get favorable reviews?
Especially for engines already highly tuned, any improvement is not only difficult and technically complex, but is generally a compromise (cams move the power upstream, exhaust loses some low speed, high compression retards the spark).
Read some tests of aftermarket chips - of 10 cars (provided by the chip manufacturers, suuure I believe they're stock):
2 of them will not run ("it never did this before")
2 do not complete the test
3 are slower than stock at every speed
1 is about the same as stock - after 6 hours work
2 are slightly faster, but get 15 mpg, overheat and have no torque below 3,000 RPM

Then how did some of those buyers say it worked great?
Very simple.
The car produces 90% of stock power until 4,000 RPM, then 102% above that. The net result is a loss (except for actual racing with full throttle upshifts), but it feels great because "you get kicked back in the seat at 4,000, then it really takes off!!".
The abrupt change from less power to stock power is what they expected to see, what they wanted to see - so they were happy when they got it. The transition was the only thing perceptible.
Noise, of course, makes everything more intense (you're going faster) and masks the other physical sensations (acceleration). A loud muffler + 95% power is always labeled a success.

Has anyone seen a quarter mile and top speed test using a box-stock low mileage car with no preparation for SRI, CAI, exhaust, chip etc. done separately?
A straight back-to-back A:B comparison?

This is why I've confined my actual research and mods to engines so primitive that anything at all is helpful.

Currently working on the 1937-63 Chevrolet "stovebolt" and G.M.C. L6 engines: http://victorylibrary.com/235BK.htm

Already completed: 1955-67 Chrysler, DeSoto, Dodge, Plymouth "polyspheric" (semi-hemi) V8 engines: http://victorylibrary.com/POLY.htm

^^^ That's pretty well said!

HOWEVER!

Definitely an improvement with CP-e EVEN if absolute numbers are within the threshold of what CAN'T be detected by the "butt-dyno" in MOST cases... when you consider RESPONSIVENESS. Engine/performance relative RESPONSE is not as "ambiguous" and metric-validation requiring for the casual driver/tuner as many in here are. I can vouch for much of what you say relative YEARS and dozens of motorcycle related experience and tuning, but once again, beyond the DYNO NUMBER, there is the RESPONSIVENESS factor. An improvement in responsiveness can be as important relative performance in real-world driving as absolute power itself.

In my experience, the CP-e DRAMATICALLY reduced (nearly eliminated) the "on-throttle" response LAG that is notable with the Solara. I further continue to CLAIM (nay... INSIST) that I am convinced there IS a performance improvement with the unit as opposed to without. (I do believe there were dyno numbers and a FEW points of both HP and TQ improvement WERE evident, albeit minor... but they were with/without comparison on the same dyno, if I'm not mistaken...)

Anyway... to each his own... and I HAVE tried performance products that were costly and just MOVED the power around (cams, etc...) but also GAINED from good balanced upgrades and validated with dyno (bikes) over the years... I've even had bikes that were MUCH MORE RESPONSIVE and everyone was CONVINCED made more power, but actually within +-2HP of baseline after tuning and mods... (on 150ish HP motorcycles)... but HOW and WHERE the gains were achieved was the important point. MOST bikes are at the PEAK HP point for a FRACTION of a PERCENT of the time, and the MID-RANGE is where you WANT your gains. In the example given, the dyno DID show substantial gains (10HP/8TQ) in the mid-range, starting nearly 1k RPM earlier and carrying a CLEAN HUMP of torque through the middle where two distinct DIPS existed before, with minimal, but not so critical peak change after...

Ultimately, for the naysayers, the DYNO MAY be the only source of empirical "truth", but in reality, even DYNO's do not capture the complete story... unless steady-state constant-RPM resistance/feedback numbers are being taken and tuned in across the range... a quick "drum-sweep" through a gear is only good for a PEAK number, and often flawed by "momentum-creep" anyway.


...what's my point? None, really... other than that I am pretty comfortable about my purchase, and after nearly 50k miles WITH the CP-e, after the initial 50k WITHOUT the CP-e, and I can ASSURE you, my 'lara has been MUCH more entertaining and satisfying to drive the LATTER mileage WITH the mod than without.


Money well spent.


-crisp

[panic]

Good - you found one that works.
My point was to urge caution, and not compare products by price or similarity of claims.

[crispone]

Good - you found one that works.
My point was to urge caution, and not compare products by price or similarity of claims.

AGREED!


-crisp

[yaddadaimsayin]

[Biggi_e]

thanks for the input everyone, although i forgot a tidbit of info,

im got a 2az motor, and another question, is it carb legal for cali?
plus i thought intake = less mileage, i read on a different thread that
they got some more?

cheers!

well now u said ur not a v6 3mz so that knocks cp-e out the picture for u...i think theres only injen and typhoon for u to choose from

[mattyboyl]

Don't forget about the Weapon-R.

[psolara04]

Injen on Gen 2 V6 = higher, raspy (ricey) sound with no performance gains over a drop in K&N filter.

You need a CP-e if you're looking for a lower growl and actual performance gains.

*edit: NOTHING after-market is legal in CA

aaaah man. that must suck to live in California. no legal modifications, strict emissions controls. lol. and that horrbile heat all the time. geez... when i start up my solara it wakes up my pet polar bear. lol

BTW... i picked up and installed the INJEN SRI last week. There is an encredible sound improvement over the stock airbox. and as someone else said, i found leaves, dirt you name it at the bottom of the air box. I really hope this new system will block the same amount of debree from getting into the engine. the whole concept is to pull more air in, but will it still stop the same amount of junk from getting in? time will tell.

As far as performance improvement, my opinion is that it has improved. For instance once and only once you stomp on it and keep stomping on it, the car does seem to pull thru the gears with more ease... as well as putting a huge smile on my face. The only reason i did not jump for the CPE was because i picked and Injen up for 1/5 the price (slightly used).
But like all of you keep stating if you want serious performance gains, then go the CPE route. But if anyone is interested in going the INJEN route, i wasnt dissapointed. i knew what to expect.

The funniest thing is when you get head turns from people on the street. and they do double takes, almost as if they can't recognize what car it is... since there's really not many out there, being driven hard anyways.

ive got some vid clips ill post. but as people have mentioned... the sound bites really don't do any justice.

[solaraboy]

Darn! If they only had the CP-e for the I4,i have the injen sri.

[NightRider]

Alright no offense to either the cpe people and Injen people. Injen is a very reputable brand that many car enthusiasts know about. After being on this forum for a while and reading numerous posts about the cpe intake. Many people can vouge for the cpe and I can understand, but why would injen make a product for this type of application that people claim have very little to no gains and to only get a noticable noise coming from under the hood?

So many people who have Cpe are basically saying that current Injen owners wasted their money and bought an intake that is just a noise maker? Hence that this a (Short Ram Intake) Before I used to have a Injen Cold Air Intake in my 6-speed Celica GTS and I notice signifcant gains and it was really loud when I hit LIFT in that thing. From the stock to that in this car was really rewarding. I wouldn't think Injen would have their design team sit down and make a product that just makes noise. Injen is no mom and pop shop come on.

I am not knocking on the CPE please don't get offended, all I hear lately on this forum is CPE is all you need to get and forget the Injen if you want "real" gains. Again I hope this doesnt offend anyone. I can take criticism. Thanks for reading!

-Richard

[r0w]

^agreed!