Some help with transmissions please!

[aigochamaloh]

Hello SG! New here, and had a few questions. Sorry that these don't pertain to the Solara or Camry, but my Avalon has the same engine and layout as you guys, so I thought I'd ask the experts.

I've been tossing around the idea of doing the first ever 5-speed swap into my Avalon for a long time. I think this summer, I'm actually going to do it.

From what I know, you manual V6 guys are running the E153 tranny correct? I come from a MR2 forum, and I know the 2nd gen turbos also run that tranny, just with the shift linkage in the opposite direction. So I have a couple sources for a tranny. I would just need to find someone who is parting out a car so that I could obtain clutch lines, pedal, etc.

I'm assuming that Toyota wanted to save money and the E153 and A5413 automatic have the same mounting locations in the engine bay. That'll make my life easier, and I won't have to fabricate any mounts. Then I run into the axle problem. Do both transmissions use the same axles? I hope they do, that'll also save me money and time, and that'll mean the hubs don't have to be changed.

That just leaves me to cut into the floor and add the shifter plate and run the cables to the transmission. Not so big of a deal I suppose. And the ECU, I could just fool the automatic ECU to think it's in park or drive correct?

Anything I am missing? Thanks SG!

[ThatVietGuy]

I'm quite sure the 5-speed has different axles.

As for the ECU, I think you'll be fine, I don't think I've read on here if there's a problem with using the auto's ECU

[(K)]

This is interesting, what year is your Avalon?

[Eye8Pussies]

the mounting locations in the engine bay are the same, you just need a different tranny mount, as well as as tranny mounting plate

and you'll need the 5-speed axles. the automatic axles don't fit in the differential

[aigochamaloh]

My car is a 1995.

So I guess if I find a partout, I'll need the tranny with all mounting hardware, and the 5-speed axles. Do those fit into the hubs for the V6 automatics?

Also, do your shifter cables go through the firewall or out the bottom of the car somewhere. Probably through the firewall correct? Unfortunately, my Avalon has the bench seats, so I don't even have the floor shifter, which means no big hunk of metal in the middle, which will make my life harder. I'll have to build some type of center console to mount the shifter and the ebrake that I will relocate. I am correct in assuming you have metal under where you shifter is mounted right?

[akora12]

My car is a 1995.

So I guess if I find a partout, I'll need the tranny with all mounting hardware, and the 5-speed axles. Do those fit into the hubs for the V6 automatics?

Also, do your shifter cables go through the firewall or out the bottom of the car somewhere. Probably through the firewall correct? Unfortunately, my Avalon has the bench seats, so I don't even have the floor shifter, which means no big hunk of metal in the middle, which will make my life harder. I'll have to build some type of center console to mount the shifter and the ebrake that I will relocate. I am correct in assuming you have metal under where you shifter is mounted right?

Hey Chris, good to see you on here.

The hubs are the same so no problems there. The shifter cables go through the firewall and there is a metal channel running under the shifter. That's about all I can help out with. Keep your eyes out for any part-outs on here..there's one every once in a while.

[(K)]

http://www.trademotion.com/partlocator/index.cfm?action=selectCatalogYearMakeModel&catalogid=1&siteid=214001&year=1995&make=34

I usually use that site (http://www.toyotapartscheap.com) for reference to parts. For your Avalon, I assume anything on the manual Camry's of that generation will fit and work. But knowing Toyota, there's probably going to be a complication somewhere.

Just quickly browsing the Manaul Transaxle (transmission) and Axle Assy. on that site shows that you're pretty much in the green with your project. The axle parts are interchangeable but they're for the 2.2 liter Camry also, but there's "probably" no real difference since it's listed for the Avalon.

I guess most of your work is going to be dealing with that shifter housing that you're going to have to fabricate...you might end up like this


lol.

[Eye8Pussies]

the 4cyl axles will not work on the v6- that, and they're much much smaller than the v6 ones....they'll probably snap once a decent amount of power is put down with them.,..

as for the shifter assembly, cables, clutch pedal, etc, you can get it from any camry or solara from 1992+ they are all interchangeable. even the 4cyl ones are interchangeable with the v6 stuff.

the tough part as well for you though, would be in finding the right spot to mount the clutch pedal most likely. on the camry and solara, there are already indents where the clutch master cylinder mounts up, since the automatic and manual use the same firewall. on the avalon, since they only come in automatic, may not have this.

as for how you'll mount the shifter, that will probably the least of your worries...find somebody who knows how to weld and you'll be good

[gnegroni]

Wasn't there somebody selling the E153 in here?

[aigochamaloh]

Haha, thanks for all the replies. Thanks for chiming in Ryan!

As for the firewall mounting point for the clutch pedal/master cylinder, already checked when I first got this crazy idea, I have the indents already.

Lol on that picture of the truck with the floor shifter. Who knows, I probably will end up like that in the beginning, but I may build something more refined later.

So good to know, parts are available, and my project can go if I choose. For some reason, I started looking at cars yesterday, and I'm torn between picked up an older Subaru Legacy GT, or just doing this to my Avalon.

[aigochamaloh]

Sorry to drag this thread back up, but I'm gearing up to get started on it, hopefully I go through with it.

Couple things, is there an automatic transmission ECU as well as the standard ECU? I was just going to permanently short the Park/Neutral switch. Also, reverse lights from the manual tranny, will have to splice that in somewhere. And vehicle speed sensor, that should be a straight swap over correct? Are there any other connections on the auto tranny that need to be accounted for?

So short run down list.

1. E153 tranny with correct mounts. (Do the same mounts in the engine bay work with the auto and manual trannys?)

2. V6 manual tranny axles (any other sources of this other than just the E153 V6?)

3. Clutch pedal, brake pedal, clutch hard lines, master cylinder, slave cylinder

4. Shifter assembly with cables

5. Flywheel, clutch

Thanks again for your help. I hopefully will document this well, and as far as I know, it'll be the first 5 speed Avalon.

[Eye8Pussies]

1. the tranny mounts are different, but they both mount up to the same location on the subframe

2. no other sources, no...don't think that the mr2 ones will work

3. yup, and also the clutch soft line. usually the tranny comes with the slave on it

4. yup...the cables seem to be the hardest thing to find

5. yup


and also, for the tranny, it's not really recommended to use the mr2 e153, since the gearing is shorter since the 3sgte has less torque than the v6

[aigochamaloh]

Hmm, I looked up the axle for the 1997 Toyota Camry 5MT, but the interchange also came up with axles for the auto tranny, starting in 1992. Interesting. I looked at www.car-part.com, under Axle Shaft. I'm assuming that is the part I am looking for.

edit: Also it seems that left and right are not differentiated. Either one I search, same results. I need to look under my car tomorrow, but are both sides the same length? I wasn't aware we had an intermediary shaft.

edit again: Also, searching for the hub, only 6 cyl and 4 cyl is listed. I guess that means the axle will go into a manual or auto hub.

[Gregtrd]

As for the axles for the E153 for a 97-01 camry, the right side are the same and interchageable but the left side is different, the 5speed axle side that ends at the trany side ends with a nipple and the auto axle ends flat.

[steffknee]

Couple things, is there an automatic transmission ECU as well as the standard ECU? I was just going to permanently short the Park/Neutral switch. Also, reverse lights from the manual tranny, will have to splice that in somewhere. And vehicle speed sensor, that should be a straight swap over correct? Are there any other connections on the auto tranny that need to be accounted for?

Typically the Auto and Manual ECM's are different. For OBDII you need to replace the ECM, but since you have a '95 IIRC you do not need to replace it. You basically just need to connect the 2 wires that go to the Park/Neutral switch to make it think it's always in gear, that way you will be able to start the car without having to push in the clutch. Or you can take the same wires and run them to the neutral safety switch on the clutch pedal and you'll have to push the clutch in to start the car just like a factory manual.

If it were a Celica I could tell you the exact wire colors and where to get them from but I'm not sure about the Avalons. But you need to find the 2 wires that go to the park/neutral switch and connect one of them on the ECM side to the other on the harness side, or route them to the neutral safety switch.

As for the reverse light you just need to find out the wire colors and find the wires in the big plug that goes to the auto trans that you're not using anymore and route them to the switch on the manual trans. It doesn't matter which wire goes to which pin, it's just an on/off switch. When sourcing the trans see if you can get the harness plug for the reverse light switch as well, it's a lot easier than rigging something. I had mine rigged at first and sometimes the pins would touch and the reverse lights would come on while I was driving.