Mysterious brake lights (Haunted Solara?)

[rvman]

My 2008 vert has about 1000 miles on it so far, and from day one (3 weeks ago) the brake lights just come on for no apparent reason. Almost like the pedal is stuck. The dealer won't work on it until the lights come on in their presence. So the car just sat there for two days, with no malfunction. Anybody ever heard of this? Any advise would be greatly appreciated.

[unbalancedwood]

first try filling up the reservoir, most of the time its that. A few tiny drops is all it takes some time...

[Down2TheC]

^^^ Brake light fluid, right? You can also use turn signal fluid if that's all you have. lol

[DatSRBoi]

Low brake fluid. Means you need to add fluid. Also means your probably half way of using your brakes. Maybe another year or so its time to buy new brakes.

[NeFaRiOuS_SLE]

^That's a bit hard to say; the guy said he has a 2008.

[PXLpainter]

Geezus - find another dealer that will take care of your freakin' NEW CAR!!

That's just not right!!

[ThatVietGuy]

I think he means the brake lights that are on the outside of the car?

[SpeedySolara]

If you have Daytime Running Lights or you're turning on the headlights, the tail lights will come on. When you pres the brake the tail lights will shine brighter.

[NightRider]

Geezus - find another dealer that will take care of your freakin' NEW CAR!!

That's just not right!!

x2 what he said

[linmk2]

I too assumed you meant the outside brake lights. My guess is the brake light switch is bad. Should be a very simple repair. If your selling dealer won't service your car, take it to another Toyota dealer. Or simply call Toyota Customer Relations, the number should be in your owner manual, and file a service complaint. Dealer do listen to those. I know. I used to work for a Toyota dealership.

[rvman]

Thanks to all for replies. Yes, it is the actual brake lamps, including third. Also interfers with cruise control. Not the emer brake handle...it is all the way down. Ironically enough, wife is at the Georgetown KY plant this week (she works for Toyota MS) and she is going to go to engineering for an answer for this and water repellent for top.
Car has auto lights, HID headlamps, etc. And a photocell of some type I am sure. I think thats it....they come on after dark.
Needless to say I am very frustrated with this, but I do appreciate the thoughts.

[[SMAN]]

If it's disabling the cruis control, then that means that it's getting power along the brake line system. Most likely that means that it's the relay that is triggered when you press the pedal. From what i see from the electrical wire diagrams, the switch contains a simple RC circuit to help with "bouncing" in that there is a simple ramp off of power, which this isn't a relay that is used to energize things, if there is a problem with the capacitor or the metal switch itself, it could cause a temporary short until it heats up and warps out of position again. The only other thing i can think of is that your getting a voltage source somewhere after the switch (backfeeding through the ground wire) This can be next to impossible to track down unless you can easily reproduce the problem for testing. First place to start with is have the switch replaced, and see if the problem still exists (this should be covered under warentee. Typicly, how long do the lights stay on when this problem occurs? Do they come on and stay on forever? I assume they come on randomly while your driving since you say that the cruis control turns off on it's own. The wiring diagram says that after the switch, it branches off into several different several different sections going to the ECU, and the brake light switch in the back. Howver everything i see tells me that the wirecolor should be the same (Green with a white stripe). Since you have a gen 2.5, you should have LED everything, in theory that should prevent backfeeding comming in from your tail lights, and i doubt you have feed comming OUT of the ecu, cause that should fry it because you'd be overloading the diodes to make them flow backwards. So to sum it all up, everything points as the likely culprit is the switch located directly above the brake pedal. The simple test i would do is to pull the 15A STOP fuse and see if the problem still happens. If it does, then your getting power from somewhere else in the car. If it doesn't happen then you know where your power source is and it has to be something between the fuse, and the split after the switch (hence it's probably the switch) DON'T FORGET TO PLUG THE FUSE BACK IN BEFORE YOU DRIVE ANYWHERE!!!!!!

[rvman]

Wow! i had to read that twice! It doesn't cause the cruise to turn off, it prevents it from being able to be activated. A firm mash on the pedal and it will work, so I assume that the lights are on when we are driving as well. Not just when the car is garaged/parked. And yes, they stay on until the pedal is depressed. Once it is, they go off. But they have come back on later several times, even when the car hasn't been operated. Recently, when I caught them on, I activated the emer brake. They went off temporarily, but came back on very soon. This led me to believe it is electrical rather than mechanical, as in the switch.
Bottom line, its definately a ghost. I am going to wash it with Holy water this afternoon and call in a Priest! Thanks for the reply...I'll pull the fuse and see what happens.

[[SMAN]]

Yeah, that fuse will cut all power going through the switch. you said the cruise control won't turn on at all? Does the green light on the dash lightup when you turn it on? or does that come on, but it won't let you set it. It's odd if you can NEVER activate the cruise control. I'm going to paste this little section from the manual on it:

Code: Select all

(9) MANUAL CANCEL function
The ECM cancels the cruise control under the
following conditions while driving:
• The cruise control main switch is pulled to
"CANCEL".
• The brake pedal is depressed.
• The clutch pedal is depressed (M/T only).
• The cruise control main switch ON-OFF
button is pushed off.
(10)AUTO CANCEL function
If any of the following malfunctions occur in the
system, the ECM stops the cruising control until
the cruise control main switch ON-OFF button is
pushed off.
• Stop light switch assembly malfunction
• Vehicle speed signal circuit malfunction
• Throttle body assembly malfunction

If any of the following malfunctions occur to the
system, the ECM stops the cruising control until
the ignition switch is turned off.
• Stop light switch input circuit malfunction
• CANCEL function circuit malfunction
Under these conditions, the cruise main
indicator light blinks until the cruise control main
switch ON-OFF button is pushed off.
AUTO CANCEL also works when actual vehicle
speed either drops below 40 km/h (25 mph) or is
16 km/h lower than the set speed.

So it looks like it's probably the switch. The book says you should have someone check the DTC to see if it's throwing any codes (a CE light may not be on even though there are codes). The stop light switch malfunction code is P0571 or P0552. If you are mechanicly inclined, and have a multimeter, the manual says this is how you check the switch (it's located at the top of the pedal under the dash and it unplugs fairly easly):

Code: Select all

(a) Turn the ignition switch off.
(b) Disconnect the stop light switch connector.
(c) Measure the resistance according to the value(s) in the
table below.
Standard resistance:
Tester connection Switch condition Specification
Resistance between Pins 3 and 4
(Brake pedal depressed) 10 Ω or higher
Resistance between Pins 3 and 4
(Brake pedal released) Below 1 Ω


Not really much more i can say other than watch for it with that fuse pulled (it's under the dash) or unplug the switch (both should give us the proper result we are looking for). The parking break shouldn't have any effect on it atall (other than vibrating the car to realign a loose wire. Same withthe auto light function because that is only active when the key is on. Anyways, the breaks are setup that if you do forget to plug the switch back in or the fuse, your breaks will still work, but your lights, ABS, traction control, and cruis control will not function properly (so don't worry about not being able to stop). Anyways, let me know what you find and we'll go from there, and if you can answer about the cruis control conditions, that will help track things down a bit.

[rvman]

Ok, I'm reading twice again. Very technical! Oddly enough, for the first time, the cruise kicked off. Wifey flew to KY so I am driving the NEW car to work this week. About 60 miles one way. Cruise has worked just fine until today. Right before I left work (daylight...so not photoelectrical?) the brake lights came on. As usual, I depressed the pedal and they went off. On the way home, the cruise wouldn't engage. Dash indicator light on...wouldn't set. Tapped the pedal a few times and it set. Then released. Did this several times and it continued to not engage (guess circuit was open and lights on). So I braked aggressively, pumped several times, and it started working and worked the rest of the way, until I would have to slow, and repeat the hard pump. Got out in the garage and the brake lights were on after shutting it down. The only thing different other than that is that son switched lights from auto to off last night after he parked it. Doubt that made any diff except I drove a little darker than usual until I realized it.
Gotta be the switch. Rather than fool with it myself, I am putting it in the shop again this week. I plan to pass these posts on to the service manager...maybe they will just try this instead on waiting for the ghost to show up!
Thank you so much for your help! I am waiting for another bit of advice from you! And I'll keep you updated.