Prognosis: Engine sludge. :(

[QuickSEV6]

start using synthetic in the new engine after you've broken it in, synthetic will prevent oil sludge.

Thats not true. I've been using synthetic since my first oil change and I had sludge. I went to an oil change place and they noticed it. They were able to clean out the sludge with a machine that pumped in some kind of solvent. In this case, my Solara was parked for weeks at a time. I'm told that that was a cause for the oil to gel.



Anyway... thought this might help.
http://www.oilgelsettlement.com/

[roger182nd]

I have been using Mobil 1 since 1972, and i have never lost and engine yet. My 1mzfe certainly won't be the 1st

[rossman945]

Hey I'm a solarguy from up at merritt island, let me know if u want to know about anything or need help with something involving your new car.

Ross

[aleki2424]

just out of curiosity. am assuming that you did not take the car to a toyota service dealership (read -stealership). then who pays the service workshop fro the labor?
that being said, the outcome of the above question poses the solution. if they get reimbursed by Toyota for work done, then you are paying em' twice. if not , then you are getting of easy, coz last time i checked an engine replacement +tuning and overhaul didnt come all that cheap.
true though, that's alot of money to put down, and i dont think you should have to fork out jack for something you had nothing to do, right. if the car wasn't 'sludged' in the first place, would you be using the services of the repair tech? nope.
plus you also mentioned somewhere that you paid something for the valve cover gasket,,, si ??

[onefiend]

start using synthetic in the new engine after you've broken it in, synthetic will prevent oil sludge.

Thats not true. I've been using synthetic since my first oil change and I had sludge. I went to an oil change place and they noticed it. They were able to clean out the sludge with a machine that pumped in some kind of solvent. In this case, my Solara was parked for weeks at a time. I'm told that that was a cause for the oil to gel.



Anyway... thought this might help.
http://www.oilgelsettlement.com/

Why'd you do that? You should've went straight to Toyota, showed them the sludge and gotten your new engine. I've been to those Oil Change places too, and they try to sell you everything from an engine flush to a pcv valve.

I've read alot of information regarding sludge back when I owned a 5SFE and using full synthetic does prevent it.

[QuickSEV6]

start using synthetic in the new engine after you've broken it in, synthetic will prevent oil sludge.

Thats not true. I've been using synthetic since my first oil change and I had sludge. I went to an oil change place and they noticed it. They were able to clean out the sludge with a machine that pumped in some kind of solvent. In this case, my Solara was parked for weeks at a time. I'm told that that was a cause for the oil to gel.



Anyway... thought this might help.
http://www.oilgelsettlement.com/

Why'd you do that? You should've went straight to Toyota, showed them the sludge and gotten your new engine. I've been to those Oil Change places too, and they try to sell you everything from an engine flush to a pcv valve.

I've read alot of information regarding sludge back when I owned a 5SFE and using full synthetic does prevent it.

This was about three years ago. I wasn't aware about the pending lawsuit back then.
I noticed a lot of smoke coming from the tail pipe, but never made a connection to oil sludge.
It was time for an oil change, so I took it to a place I normally get it done. They noticed it and suggested cleaning it out. I just thought it was smart to get it handled right then and there, so I did.
Like I said, that was three years ago and several oil changes later, still no smoke from tail pipe.

What actually causes the sludge? I don't understand what the physical process is to make oil gel like that. And despite what you say, I do use a full synthetic and I did have sludge.

[onefiend]

Did they say you were burning oil? That sucks if you did have sludge, you're the first one I've heard that uses full synthetic since day 1 and got sludge.

Here's a quick definition of what sludge is and what can cause it.

Oil sludge is a solid or gel in motor oil caused by the oil gelling or solidifying, usually at temperatures lower than 100 degrees Celsius. Sludge can be a major contributor to engine problems, and can require the engine to be replaced if the damage is severe. Sludge is usually caused by the presence of water in the oil, and can accumulate with use. Ways to minimize sludge production and accumulation include performing frequent oil changes, using synthetic oil, and following the manufacturer's engine maintenance routine.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oil_sludge

[Jai_Jai_Binks]

quicksev6: are you the only owner of the car? If not, did you have history of how the car was maintained prior to your acquisition? I ask cus we add close to 5-6K on our 1mzfe camry...although we use it like 3-4 times a week only. I've not had a problem and would like to keep it that way, hence asking?

[QuickSEV6]

Did they say you were burning oil? That sucks if you did have sludge, you're the first one I've heard that uses full synthetic since day 1 and got sludge.

Here's a quick definition of what sludge is and what can cause it.

Oil sludge is a solid or gel in motor oil caused by the oil gelling or solidifying, usually at temperatures lower than 100 degrees Celsius. Sludge can be a major contributor to engine problems, and can require the engine to be replaced if the damage is severe. Sludge is usually caused by the presence of water in the oil, and can accumulate with use. Ways to minimize sludge production and accumulation include performing frequent oil changes, using synthetic oil, and following the manufacturer's engine maintenance routine.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oil_sludge

So water in the oil causes it? Maybe I'm a little slow, but that really doesn't make sense. Oil and water don't mix.

quicksev6: are you the only owner of the car? If not, did you have history of how the car was maintained prior to your acquisition? I ask cus we add close to 5-6K on our 1mzfe camry...although we use it like 3-4 times a week only. I've not had a problem and would like to keep it that way, hence asking?

Yup. I am the only owner. I ordered my Solara from the factory. When I got it, it only had 8 miles on it. I baby my car too.
When I had the gelling problem, I left my car parked for months at a time. Usually 2 to 3 months before I would drive it again (I was a truck driver and out on the road a lot). The technician at the oil change place said that would probably cause it.
Again, I don't understand how oil, just sitting, will turn to gell. Maybe I need to go back to chemistry class.

[ozone]

The whole sludge thing is a mystery to me, but it shouldn't be to Toyota and the fact that the Solara's have this problem moreso than other cars definitely indicates a design issue as far as I'm concerned.

Yes, I agree that the dealership could "change its mind," and what would he do? But what he's being charged for is bogus. They've concocted this to get some money out of him for a repair they don't want to give away.

I think that $800 is getting off a bit light for the type of damage sustained, so you could just call it even. However, there is this little bit:

I saw one of these engines on ebay used for $1250 and new for $2500. I'm sure if you look around you can probably find more of them. $1250, isn't too far from the $800 he's paying. So I guess I'm wondering how "great" a deal it is. Plus, I wonder what kind of guarantee comes with the new repair. Has Toyota fixed the problem or is he just as likely to get sludge in this new engine?

I'm not trying to question fate here, but I'm kind of wondering why my wife's Solara doesn't have sludge. I have the oil changed regularly, but I'm not anal about the interval. Sometimes it's 3000 miles, sometimes 5000. The longest it's ever gone is maybe 10K, but the oil had always just been regular old Valvoline.

We've always brought the car somewhere to have it done, because I hate having to store the oil until I'm ready to recycle it. But I've recently decided to pretty much do everything myself (don't trust others) and I just did it myself for the first time since we've gotten married and I used Mobil 1. I also wouldn't say that the car has had other areas perfectly maintained. Air filters, fuel filters, spark plugs; they all lag a little behind what would be ideal I think, but still no problems. My wife didn't even use premium fuel. The one thing the car has gotten. . . is driven. Lot's of highway miles and lots of in town miles too. It has 180K on it, with plenty of small battle scars. Maybe that's the key, I don't know, but it does seem like there must be some combination of engine design and a particular kind of use, to cause the sludge.

[bassthrive]

Is removing the valve cover the only way to diagnose sludge?

I change the oil and oil filter at 5k-7.5k intervals with Mobil 1 full synthetic. I run a half can of seafoam in the crankcase and make sure the engine is nice and hot right before I drain.

[conor42]

Again, I don't understand how oil, just sitting, will turn to gell. Maybe I need to go back to chemistry class.

All oils, natural or synthetic, are compounds that break down gradually over time. When they break down and are not replaced, bad things happen.

Honestly, nearly everyone should be following the "Severe" driving maintenance schedule on their cars.. Because the way most of us drive qualifies as such. The only people who aren't "severe" drivers are those who never make short trips and who never get on the throttle hard, all while driving the car regularly (not letting it sit).

If people used high quality oils and changed them at regular intervals of 3,000 miles or so, there would be no sludging issue. Sure, we can argue all day about it being a design flaw (it really is)... however.. It's a flaw that shows up when maintenance is neglected.

So what if someone's friend drove 100,000 miles in his Honduh without ever changing the oil. Let's check back in on that guy in a year or two when that engine's just about wasted itself. You can pretty much guarantee that he already has problems, too.. Just because they haven't manifested themselves int he form of catastrophic engine failure yet doesn't mean that htey aren't there.

[offthahook]

Guess I'll weigh in. A timing belt and all the other $788 charge is kinda bogus because the new motor is NOT in the car. He should just have to pay for parts and maybe 1 hour labor to install them on the motor out of the car. A motor really isn't a motor without these parts, so I don't hink he should have to pay for them at all. But I know even long blocks aren't mere drop ins; you have to use some old parts. I'm good friends with a Honda master tech. and he tells me when they replace a motor with a junkyard motor, the service dept. gives the customer the option of paying for the parts of a water pump and timing belt. Since the salvage engine is out of the car, the timing belt/water pump task is SIMPLE. He said almost every customer pays for the service even if the used engine has low miles. It is that much easier if the engine is not in an engine bay.

Honda has had similar issued with their V6 auto. transmissions, especially the Odyssey. Fellas, it is case by case and dealer to dealer on that issue. Most people are getting replacements at up to 140K for failed trannies, BUT the dealer stories are all over the place for what the customer is really paying. Sound familiar? I've heard of dealers charging the customer for FREIGHT (shipping!), diagnostic times, motor mounts that are bad as well, LABOR only (free tranny), PART only (free labor), and none/all of the normal fee. I think the dealers are trying to get over by upselling things that should be included or greatly reduced. My GF has a Honda Certified Ody--2002. She had a brief TCS and D4 flash; that can be the beginning of the end. I talk to the service writer and she's all like "Bring it in; we normally just replace them no questions asked. Honda is really on this issue." Sounds good right? No. They scan the ECU and it shows no codes, but we get charged $40 diagnostic time, even on a certified van with known issues. I bitched and got some $82 back (for another issue-- sticking power doors), but they would not refund the diagnostic time charge! The service writer told me they even bill the people who get remanned trannies for diagnostic time. I later found out that is double dipping because Honda reimburses the dealer service dept. .6 hours for diagnostic time. So, the dealer is telling the customer it's like $80 for a new tranny and the customer is thrilled, but the dealer is really being shady and double dipping.

These dealerships have so many tricks to get out of warranty work. I know at Honda, if a part is not replaced, you are charged even with a Certified warranty. If something just needs lubed or adjusted, you are billed. Sounds like Toyota has their way of dealing with the same issue-- make some money on a major project. I know the dealership gets much less money on a goodwill job than a customer pay job. Dealers think they have to make it up somewhere. $800 for a timing belt job isn't out of line, unless the engine is not installed. That is WAY too much...

[Gangis]

Well I finally dropped off the 'lara yesterday at 10am. I was told by Paul Szubielski, one of the service writers, on the phone that they would be giving me a new engine. However, yesterday they informed me and my dad that they'd only be rebuilding the engine. We were FURIOUS to say the least. While we were talking with Paul and the manager for the service department, I brought up the $788 charge and they said it was reduced to $650. I'm still very unhappy with how they've yanked my chain twice already... Once when I was told that there wouldn't be any labor charge for the ECU install, and now the whole engine fiasco.

I am NOT happy with Toyota/Lexus of Melbourne at the moment. So far I've had to fork over a thousand dollars for BS stuff.

They gave me a loaner, a '05 Corolla. Seriously, I hate it. I'm not a tall person at all (5'7") but I found it REALLY cramped, even more so than the Yaris. Everytime I drive it my right ankle hurts because the whole dash is set too low that my knee is resting against the dash, forcing me to reach for the pedals with my ankle. I tried pulling the seat back but even then my arms could barely reach the wheel. Bad design move, Toyota...

[MCOjerry]

Ask them why they are now telling you something different. What changed?