Has anyone driven-compared gen 1 & 2 Convertibles?

[oldkystude]

Would love to hear any comments. I know nothing about the gen 1 except that they started life as sedans and were sent to an outside firm to be converted. The gen 2 is made in my plant and is engineered down to the underbody structure to be a convertible. It is the most massive car body structure I have ever seen. Do you guys know about the dual rollbars?

Drove one a few weeks ago and it was the tightest convertible I have experienced. HP

[PXLpainter]

Well - can't speak for the Gen 1, but I think it was Car & Driver that called it the "boneless chicken" of convertibles.

I didn't really think my convertible was that tight - not until I installed the TRD RSB & FSTB on it - and of course lowering it helps roll as well.

As you'll notice in some of the threads, a few of us have taken a look at the roll cage behind the back seat (actually looking for a way to cut off the bars inside the rear headrests). But besides that and the cross braces underneath the car, it seems pretty much identical to the coupe with the rest of the construction.

[oldkystude]

As you'll notice in some of the threads, a few of us have taken a look at the roll cage behind the back seat (actually looking for a way to cut off the bars inside the rear headrests). But besides that and the cross braces underneath the car, it seems pretty much identical to the coupe with the rest of the construction.

Not sure why you would want to cut those out. The car was designed for substantial roll over protection. The windshield frame is also much stronger than the coupe. It is hard to describe all the structural differences and special welds in the convertible. I have some pdf images showing convertible structural differences, but this forum does not host images. Will be happy to share if I knew how. Here are a few items:

There is another transverse beam under the front edge of the rear seat. It appears that we use a thinner lower cushion to preserve the headroom as this beam is about 3 inches above the identical structure in the coupe. It is there to stiffen the rear door posts and flares upward at the post attachment points about 4 more inches.

The x structure under the rear of the car attaches to much thicker brackets in front of the rear tires than those on the coupe.

There is a thick bracket attached to the front edge of the spare tire well under the car for attachment of the rear of the x braces. (The trunk floor is the same as the coupe.)

The door sill box that runs between both wheel wells is double the thickness of the coupe. If you ever get a coupe next to a convertible pop the plastic door sill trim off both and look at the difference. (this structure is where the side of the car splits from the underbody and is joined on the convertible body line. The underbody is built on the same line as the coupe and camry, but has the extra thick parts. We pull the convertible underbody off the main line manually and dolly it over to the special convertible line. At first I thought the underbody was the same as the coupe and old Camry, but it is much stronger.)

The front door post is thicker than the coupe, but the doors are the same with one exception. The hinge brackets are welded on the doors on a special jig which sets them a few MM closer to the outer panel. This is to give the door a flush fit by compensating for the thicker posts. We spray blue dye on the convertible door edge so they do not get mixed up with the coupe doors.

The convertible has over 300 separate mig welds holding all the extra reinforcements. I don't have an actual count on the coupe mig welds but estimate there are less than 30. When the 4 mig robots finish the body moves to a station where 2 TMs inspect each weld and reweld any that are not 100%. Each body takes about 10 minutes extra for this rewelding despite a lot of effort to have the robots do all perfecly. There are just too many variables and this is the only solution that made sense.

I really cringe when I think of all this extra effort being compromised by cutting out a section of the structure. The safety of you and your family is more important than the appearance change you are considering. Please add all the structure you want but don't take any out!

HP

[kingkakyle]

^^ yea i think people understood the roll thing with the headrests
they were just unhappy about the blocked view going out the back window

[MCOjerry]

I have some pdf images showing convertible structural differences, but this forum does not host images. Will be happy to share if I knew how.

Wow, more great info! I'm liking my car more and more. I will share this with my friends who say my car isn't safe because it's a convertible!!

You can set up a free account on www.photobucket.com and host your photos there, then post the img links here and your pics will show. Not sure if photobucket supports .pdf, but of all people, Jeff (PXL) would know.

[NeFaRiOuS_SLE]

Well I haven't had the good fortune of driving a Gen1 convertible (but that's probably my next car), but I've test driven both the Gen2 and the Gen2.5. Now the only reason that one might want to remove the restraints are because of a few things:

1. All 4 Generations of Solaras have a higher back; I hate to bring competitors into the line, but I can tell EXACTLY where the bumper is backing up in a 91 Buick Century and an 04 Nish!t SenCrap. The Solara on the other hand is more guesswork/half-standing-in-your seat with the hardtops that have a window that is more flush with the trunk lid using the lip spoiler as a guide; convertibles have about 2" of space that creates a larger blind spot.

2. Speaking of blind spots, the rear window is very tiny... The Gen1 was OK (judging by looking at it), but I drove the Gen2.5 briefly with the top up, and the visibility was very limited through the window; seemingly just enough to let you know if the cops are in your rearview... But not enough for little children... That sit in the back of a car with an unheated 02 sensor [that should repel them by the smell alone]... WHILE YOU'RE TRYING TO BACK UP!! (Seriously I had some dumbass kids like that in my old townhouse complex; I rarely park front-in to ever since).

3. Now to get around to your question: With the 2 things I just mentioned in mind, hindsight is further hindered by the headrests... Seems like the "pop-up" type of head restraints that conceal itself flush or near-flush would've been more feasible if it was offered.

[MCOjerry]

3. Now to get around to your question: With the 2 things I just mentioned in mind, hindsight is further hindered by the headrests... Seems like the "pop-up" type of head restraints that conceal itself flush or near-flush would've been more feasible if it was offered.

I think these would greatly add to the cost of the car. You usually see active roll bars in more expensive cars.

[oldkystude]

The Solara on the other hand is more guesswork/half-standing-in-your seat with the hardtops that have a window that is more flush with the trunk lid using the lip spoiler as a guide; convertibles have about 2" of space that creates a larger blind spot.

2. Speaking of blind spots, the rear window is very tiny... The Gen1 was OK (judging by looking at it), but I drove the Gen2.5 briefly with the top up, and the visibility was very limited through the window; seemingly just enough to let you know if the cops are in your rearview.

Hey we put a little square hole in the rear headrest now!

I hear that complaint a lot about the car. One of our managers had a coupe company car when they came out and really hated the rear visibility. The styling is great, but that is the problem. (Actually all the young folks in my family do NOT like the looks of the gen 2 cars at all. Young to me is 30 BTW.) We had a gen 2 Prius with the same issue, and the Matrix is also poor. They fixed the Prius with a standard rear camera, which is also std in the Lexus RX. I understand you can get these rear cameras in wireless now cheap. Any experience?

FYI trivia: In the plant the coupe is refered to as the 592 and the Convertible is the 792.

[PXLpainter]

Well - I know for a fact that you can't just slap on an '07 headrest on an '04-06, because they have a flat metal plate inside the roll bars that the headrests attach to (welded in place). BUT - do you know if they can be modified to fit somehow? (like Sawzall that middle bracket out?)

Neither the Volvo and BMW rear headrests are as huge, ugly and obstructive.

[MCOjerry]

Well - I know for a fact that you can't just slap on an '07 headrest on an '04-06, because they have a flat metal plate inside the roll bars that the headrests attach to (welded in place). BUT - do you know if they can be modified to fit somehow? (like Sawzall that middle bracket out?)

Neither the Volvo and BMW rear headrests are as huge, ugly and obstructive.

Not sure about BMW, but Volvo has an active roll over protection system, so the headrests are exactly that, headrests. That's why they are less obtrusive.

I have to tell you, I don't find that this bothers me much. Trying to back into a driveway it night is hard, but in all other cases, I have learned the way my car is, and do pretty well.

Also, my top is down WHENEVER possible so that helps!

[PhreakdOut]

I'm not sure about Volvo, but my brother had an older BMW 325ic convertible which had this system. Basicly, the roll bar would discharge and come up if the car started to roll so many degrees. (A fairly complicated system that was expensive to reset / repair like an airbag.)

[MCOjerry]

^^yup, that's why the Solara doesn't have one

[NeFaRiOuS_SLE]

The Solara on the other hand is more guesswork/half-standing-in-your seat with the hardtops that have a window that is more flush with the trunk lid using the lip spoiler as a guide; convertibles have about 2" of space that creates a larger blind spot.

2. Speaking of blind spots, the rear window is very tiny... The Gen1 was OK (judging by looking at it), but I drove the Gen2.5 briefly with the top up, and the visibility was very limited through the window; seemingly just enough to let you know if the cops are in your rearview.

Hey we put a little square hole in the rear headrest now!

I hear that complaint a lot about the car. One of our managers had a coupe company car when they came out and really hated the rear visibility. The styling is great, but that is the problem. (Actually all the young folks in my family do NOT like the looks of the gen 2 cars at all. Young to me is 30 BTW.) We had a gen 2 Prius with the same issue, and the Matrix is also poor. They fixed the Prius with a standard rear camera, which is also std in the Lexus RX. I understand you can get these rear cameras in wireless now cheap. Any experience?

FYI trivia: In the plant the coupe is refered to as the 592 and the Convertible is the 792.

Hate to bust your bubble, but it still somewhat obstructs things. Then again, I'm not too used to cars with rear headrests since i never owned a car with one... I said what I said because I backed up the car in the dealership with the top up, and I found myself having to open the door. I guess like Jerry said there is a learning curve, but I've been in an E46 M3 and it was less of an issue with a bigger window.
To further back up my claim about the window size:

VERSUS


Another small things comes to mind about Gen1 vs. Gen2: Gen1 window controls are rear window only, while Gen2 has ALL windows. Sure, it's nice to have all windows respond accordingly when you're lowering the top, but just to have some minor ventilation is a bit of a process (e.g. one of those days where you don't want to drive top down but still would like a bit of fresh air without wind buffeting); I was thinking to somehow have both; maybe a switch below the front window controls?

Speaking of which, one beef I have with the hardtop is that the rear quarter windows don't open, so fart air remains stagnant for that much longer. (don't worry, out of respect for the car, I try not to drive after having Mexican food ). It doesn't have to roll down, but at least the kind that crack open an inch by manual lever (electronically controlled optional).

Then another thing about the website: Sure the changes are subtle, but it's been almost a year and the 360 still shows the 2006... Doesn't seem like TMC is that anxious to advertise such a good car .

Sorry to rant about everything, but I'm a bit of a perfectionist, but I know you kinda queried for our opinions, and I'm just saying the probable reasons that people aren't buying them like they should.

Oh and one more thing; I haven't tested it, but does the windows correspond accordingly with the roof button? Usually I roll it down first, but I noticed in a BMW all you have to do is push the "top down" button and it does the rest with the windows.

[PXLpainter]

Oh and one more thing; I haven't tested it, but does the windows correspond accordingly with the roof button? Usually I roll it down first, but I noticed in a BMW all you have to do is push the "top down" button and it does the rest with the windows.

On Gen 2, yes they do.

[MCOjerry]

NEF: The window on the BMW might be bigger, but the left and right blind spots are about the same size, and there are still head rests in the way. I'd imagine you can see a little better in it, but not a whole lot.

One of the trade offs of driving a convertible is the smaller than normal rear window, all convertibles have smaller windows than the coupe or sedan versions of the same car. Be thankful that some brilliant person finally figured out how to make them with real glass, rather than that cheesy plastic that always craked and got cloudy!