2006 V6 Throttle LAG - REPORT TO NHTSA

[HID04V6]

Just picked my 04 up from the dealership after having it in for some warranty work, including the lag. They reflashed the ecu and now it is worse than it was before I took it in. I'm going to file my complaint on the website also.

I was also told on my test drive that the car would "learn" my driving style and adapt properly, but has yet to do that in its 15,000 miles. I drove an 06 V6SE convertible that was a rental car and there was NO lag at all. I was rather surprised, although there are so many people that drive it and it can't learn a driving style, so who knows...

[FLUXEMAG]

Why is it that this lag is endagering lives?

-chris

Think brake lag...then invert.

Not being able to go is almost as bad as not being able to stop in certain situations in traffic.

[PXLpainter]

The main problem here...it is that it is not always the same...so you cannot anticipate well, all the time, when you have to start runnning...I was on "sportshift" once in 1st gear I stop on a red light on a 30 MPH street...I had room for 3-4 car (0-30 MPH is somehting around what 3 sec ? ) I push it up to get in 2nd gear but the tranny stays for 2 seconds on the cut-off...then a normal thing turns in a dangerous things for nothing...I've been afraid that time but it is just random...it never happen again to have THAT MUCH lag....but it will happen again someday...:S

I think the lag is even dangerous for any kind of driver...the lag is useless...yeah a normal time synchro to let the sequential tranny change the gear...but any extra lag is useless. The tranny is like spinning in the butter !

Why is it that this lag is endagering lives?

-chris

I think that's a good way to describe it Sebas. I've had that same thing happen if I start out in 1st gear - its such a short gear and if you go over say 4000RPMs in 1st before you upshift to 2nd, you will most likely be stuck there experiencing the cutoff crap for a couple seconds before it decides to actually shift to 2nd. Doesn't do this in any other gear either!

So what do all the other car manufacturers do with this type of "manu-matic" shifting - like paddle shifters, etc? Why do theirs work and this doesn't?

[LunarMistGray]

I know I want be popular with this post, but for those that complain about the LAG, I suggest you get over it or learn to drive the car. Is there a lag, yes. If you notice, the Solaras seem to remain in high gear ,even when decelerating. So when you decide that you want more gas fast, it has to downshift and figure out that you want to take off like a "bat at out of hell"

The car definitely learns your driving style. I've had my 2004 flashed with the update and I drive in manual mode, plus the automatic mode and I have NEVER gotten my self in a situation as some have posted on here. If I want I can reproduce what other say happen to them. It is easy to reproduce if you understand how you car operates. You will definitely experience the lag when/while it is decelerating and then deciding that I think i will step on the gas to get more power to pass something.

There couple of ways to minimize the lag:
1) The first is don't be afraid to step on the accelerator aggressively. Do this for a week and I guarantee there will be a difference.
2) The second is drive in manual mode in which case for me it NEVER LAGS. The important thing is: YOU MUST know when to shift. There is an optimum shift point. If you shift higher than this point, then expect a slight delay as the car goes into "You want to go faster? Give me a second!!"
3) Know the gear you are in. This is important. Listen for when the engine is downshifting/upshifting. This is important no matter whether you drive in automatic or manu-matic. Even if you step on the pedal aggressively, but yet you do not know what gear you are in will still produce a lag.

For those merging into high-speed traffic, somehow you must get your gear/RPM at the "passing gear" BEFORE you decide to HIT the ACCELERATOR otherwise you will experience "the scare of your life" as the the car realizes that you are not slowing down for a red-light or slow traffic, but that you want the car to take off like a "rocket"

[cklinh]

Speaking for myself, and I'm sure lots of other people here too.. I paid damn near $30K for this car... I shouldn't have to adjust the way I drive to be safe... (when I'm a damn safe driver to begin with)...

[LunarMistGray]

Speaking for myself, and I'm sure lots of other people here too.. I paid damn near $30K for this car... I shouldn't have to adjust the way I drive to be safe... (when I'm a damn safe driver to begin with)...

Your statement makes no sense. Every car has different braking, accelration, etc. If you don't adjust your driving for the cars you drive, then I can see why you might have problems.

Also you can't be a safe driver if you pull out in 60-80 mph traffic from a 25-40 mph speed not realizing THAT the car is NOT in the right PASSING GEAR. Even at the correct speed you are forcing the car that has the right-away to slow down because you can't get up to speed quickly enough.

Do you remember what driving school taught when it says "YIELD" to oncoming traffic when coming off a ramp. When you are in an accident, tell it to the police and see if they have sympathy for you.

[cklinh]

That's fine... not looking to argue... nor am I looking for sympathy... just throwing out support for those that feel the same way I do...

If you're happy about being able to adjust to your car, then good for you... just please don't piss on us for expressing what we feel...

[PXLpainter]

I know I want be popular with this post, but for those that complain about the LAG, I suggest you get over it or learn to drive the car. Is there a lag, yes. I hate the "Drive by Wire" which i believe is a major contributor to the lag. Can the ECM be flashed to take away the lag, I doubt it.

Coupla things - First of all, it has nothing to do with learning to drive the car. You haven't really read all the accounts people have posted (not just in this thread) in detail thoroughly... might wanna read up.

Also - you obviously don't experience the same level of hesitation that some of us have... as previously discussed in this thread (like intermittent/selective shifting, etc) and as experienced by some, even using the "Sport Shift" mode doesn't always solve the problem.

And since our cars come with a Tach, it's pretty easy to keep an eye on the shift points, as well as feel/listen to the engine (pretty easy to do with an after-market intake and TRD exhaust) - it still just takes a l-o-n-g time to get around to making those shifts... even "manually".

[TW85]

The issue is not about having to plan ahead when you need to start accelerating, you do that in EVERY car. However, the Solara's throttle lag is simply unacceptable no matter how you look at it. A damn car should not take up to 2 seconds to realize the driver wants to accelerate. Many other manufactuers have implemented throttle-by-wire systems with little or no lag; why is Toyota incapable of doing this? As I said before, it has been a known problem (as well as the crappy shifting of the tranny) for at least four years with a variety of Toyota and Lexus models. Passing at 50+ mph is not an issue, the throttle lag virtually disappears at those speads. At town speeds, however, the lag can be outright dangerous if you are not accustom to it. And the lag does not always occur; the throttle can respond nicely for several weeks in a row and then one day it will decide to simply not be responsive.

Switching over to sportshift mode does not magically make the car drive as it should. It does not eliminate the lag, it does not reduce it, it does not allow for more aggressive automatic shifting, and half the time it takes just as long for the frickin' gear to shift as it does for the car to realize you want to actually accelerate. There is so much inconsistency in the way this car behaves, and my driving style does not change. I am constantly having to retrain the car to fit my driving style, which is a pretty typical style (though I'm quite safe in everything I do).

Bottom line is it is not just a few picky owners complaining; Toyota and Lexus owners have griped about the very same problem for at least four years, and it just so happens the Solara is affected just as bad, possibly even worse. This car does not behave the way a nearly $30,000 car should; $15,000 cars have far more predictable behavior.

I honestly do not know why I am suddenly complaining about this; I have put up with it for a long time but I guess I have grown extremely tired of Toyota ignoring problems when they arise. Come November, this car can burn in Hell for all I care because I will be done with it...and Toyota.

[PXLpainter]

Like I've said in various threads on this issue before, it's NOT a global issue with all Toyota products!! I had a 2001 3.4 V6 Tundra and a 2002 3.0 V6 Camry (my girlfriend has the exact same Camry as well) - absolutely no lag/hesitation issues whatsoever.

I have NEVER experienced a fuel-injected car that behaves this way - and not any other Toyota TBW product. For some reason - it seems to be isolated to only THIS engine/trans combination.

Perhaps THIS is one of the reasons they're discontinuing the Solara line.

[TW85]

I have NEVER experienced a fuel-injected car that behaves this way - and not any other Toyota TBW product. For some reason - it seems to be isolated to only THIS engine/trans combination.

Perhaps THIS is one of the reasons they're discontinuing the Solara line.

I based what I said off of many complaints on forums from owners of 2002+ ES 300s/330s, Camrys, RX 300s/330s, Highlanders, etc. You and your girlfriend may not have had an issue with the Camry but others have. As you said, it does not affect every Toyota made but it is not just the Solara or 3.3 V6/5 speed auto combo. Or maybe the other owners are more willing to accept what Toyota/Lexus says...

[PXLpainter]

Right - those are all basically the same drivetrain as well -

I guess we've been fortunate to not have issues - but I gotta tell ya, the only other car I've EVER experienced anything like this in, was my '68 Cougar with the stock engine/tranny/Holly 4-barrel carb before I replaced everything! New 4-barrel on a fresh engine/tranny and replaced the old distributor with an electronic ignition and all my flooding/timing issues disappeared. THOSE were the days when we could still actually work on our own cars!

[LunarMistGray]

Switching over to sportshift mode does not magically make the car drive as it should. It does not eliminate the lag, it does not reduce it, it does not allow for more aggressive automatic shifting, and half the time it takes just as long for the frickin' gear to shift as it does for the car to realize you want to actually accelerate.

You are correct in that putting it in sportshift doesn't solve the problem. You MUST know when to shift. For me, I know my car's optimum shift point and it is not at high-rpms. If you notice the solara's like to stay in current the gear even when decelerating, presumably to save gas I guess. Well, this will definitely cause a problem when you want to go into a passing gear. The key is keeping your RPMS and GEAR within the powerband, so that you will always have power at your disposal. If you have ever driven a stick-shift and try to take off like a rocket, but you are in the wrong gear, you car will limp along until you either down-shift or until the car gets into the right power range with the current gear.

So if you are getting a lag while shifting in manumatic, then either your car is defective or you are not shifiting at the right RPM for your gear selection.


I must be a lucky man because my baby purrs like a kitten.

[LunarMistGray]

I know I want be popular with this post, but for those that complain about the LAG, I suggest you get over it or learn to drive the car. Is there a lag, yes. I hate the "Drive by Wire" which i believe is a major contributor to the lag. Can the ECM be flashed to take away the lag, I doubt it.

Coupla things - First of all, it has nothing to do with learning to drive the car. You haven't really read all the accounts people have posted (not just in this thread) in detail thoroughly... might wanna read up.

Also - you obviously don't experience the same level of hesitation that some of us have... as previously discussed in this thread (like intermittent/selective shifting, etc) and as experienced by some, even using the "Sport Shift" mode doesn't always solve the problem.

And since our cars come with a Tach, it's pretty easy to keep an eye on the shift points, as well as feel/listen to the engine (pretty easy to do with an after-market intake and TRD exhaust) - it still just takes a l-o-n-g time to get around to making those shifts... even "manually".

I disagree totally. It has everything to do with how you drive plus other factors. I don't need the the TACH or TRD exhaust or any aftermarket product to let me know when i should shift. The ONLY thing you need is to feel/listen to the engine. If you have to look at the TACH, then I would surmise that your shifting will not be at the optimum point if you have poor mind-hand coordination. When I'm in first gear, I shift out of it the millisecond I press on the accelerator. I have no hesitation at all. Yet, when you are in automatic, you WILL always get a lag of varying degrees. Now for me, the lag is very, very minimal. When I first got my car, it irritated the heck out of me, until I figured out how to minimize the lag as I posted earlier. It doesn't eliminate the lag, but it makes driving in the automatic mode much more pleasureable.

[Sebas007]

^^^ telling those things is to pretend that we are a kind of bunch of morons ! I mean...I do use sportshift properly...shifting BEFORE doing anything...but when it happens...it happens man !! The 1st to 2nd shift were the same as the hundreds of the previous one I made...but for this time it has not been enough quick and then turn to a "close-call"

I think the clinkh is 100% right by saying that a 30K car must have an accurate quick tranny...even for an old fart car....any Toyota doesn't have much other "sporty" car in their line-up for now !!

And like many of you that test-drove the car...you're more happy with the power and the lag problem doesn't come up too much in many of test drive...I drove in a 40 MPH zone on a straight road...maybe I've to learn to test drove better and not be afraid to beat the car up...but anyway I like my car a lot. bottom line cannot ignore the fact that there is a big improvement to do on the tranny.