'06 V6 Only Throttle/Shift Lag Problems

[PXLpainter]

Okay - I started a new thread for us '06-ers, because from what I've learned from Toyota service today is that it is indeed a new and separate issue from the '04s/'05s - and very well may require a new engineering "fix".

I had the appointment - took in the printed TSB with me and gave it to the service writer, who said he'd push it through even though it was for an earlier model year.

Two hours later he comes up to discuss with me - that the codes in the diagnotic computer already match the ECM "fix" that the TSB addresses on the '06. He said that the throttle/shift lag is the result of two things - 1) Drive by wire engineering and 2) Emissions control. I asked him if this was different in CA (with the strictest emmissions in the nation) than it was elsewhere and he said he didn't know. Hmmm... something to investigate further.

To me, this is an engineering flaw - and a potentially dangerous one at that.

In the mean time, I'm going to do as much research on this as I can and take it up with Toyota Regional (the only way I found so far to get ACTION on issues by the way - I have stories from my '01 Tundra days!) - and try to do every mod that I can to improve this V6 - from intake to exhaust...

...and drive in Sport Shift mode 90% of the time.

I'll post updates as I find them - and encourage any other '06-ers to as well. There's GOTTA be a way around this... SOON!

Thanks - Jeff

[slingshot]

Sorry to hear that. Have you noticed any change if you drive hard often versus driving very conservatively? You don't notice any learning of the transmission occurring?

[PXLpainter]

I think my tranny is "learning impaired" - or just slightly retarded, I dunno...

I hardly ever drive conservatively, so it doesn't get the chance to re-learn bad habits. I've gotten pretty used to dropping it into Sport Shift mode all the time now so I'll find my groove and work around it eventually. At least until we can get a real fix for the issue.

JF

[dvdchris45]

before the TSB came out for the 04s I remember someone posted that some lag would go away if u kept it in sport mode (5th gear...as if your driving auto) the entire time. I never did it cause I swore it was a placebo effect.

Also, look into DocJohn's intake trick...it'll take you no longer than 5 minutes of your time to pull off...I'd post the link but I'm going to crash asleep right now


ps. cp-e also has a badass intake...if in case you know...food for thought. good luck with the lag fix!

[PXLpainter]

Thanks for the tips - and yes, any gear in Sport Shift mode and it will automatically downshift correctly - I just forget to pop it up into OD (5th) sometimes on the freeway, so you have to pay attention obviously. It's no placebo effect IMO

Also - I did DocJohns fix - can't really see much difference yet...

And have a TRD Air FIlter on the way next week.

JF

[stockae92]

i see what you mean

to me, i think the lag is more the transmission than the throttle

the transmissino is just so slow and love to hold on to lowest possible rpm that its just not responsive to most of the throttle input

even when we are trying to shift manually, it just like to hold on to revs and take it easy

and i hated the fact that it would downshift automatically in manual, which effectively makes the 5sp auto into a 4 or 3 or 2 speed auto (combine with the fact that the shifts are so slow)

e.g. when i am @ 5th, i want to pass and so i down shift to 4rd and hit some gas. after the down shift, which takes a while, then the transmission will want to down shift to 3rd by itself if i gave it too much gas, which will take another long while. this just annoys me.

[PXLpainter]

i see what you mean

to me, i think the lag is more the transmission than the throttle

the transmissino is just so slow and love to hold on to lowest possible rpm that its just not responsive to most of the throttle input

even when we are trying to shift manually, it just like to hold on to revs and take it easy

and i hated the fact that it would downshift automatically in manual, which effectively makes the 5sp auto into a 4 or 3 or 2 speed auto (combine with the fact that the shifts are so slow)

e.g. when i am @ 5th, i want to pass and so i down shift to 4rd and hit some gas. after the down shift, which takes a while, then the transmission will want to down shift to 3rd by itself if i gave it too much gas, which will take another long while. this just annoys me.

Exactly - it's just a totally confused tranny IMO - Kinda like an Irish Setter on Caffeine

I sure wish we had a Manual Tranny option with this V6 since they can't get the AT to work right. Bummer.

JF

[stockae92]

and they didn't do the manual mode right!!!

i can drive the car in both fully auto mode and in 5th in manual mode and it makes no difference.

what's the point?!

[Down2TheC]

If you're in the tiptronic mode and have it on 5, then there's no difference from having it in full auto. All that mode does is set the max gear to use. It doesn't effect how the trans will shift or when it will shift (below the max gear.) Only way to avoid the lag is to drop it a gear manually when you need it. Most often (if you lag is the same as ours was) it's from a rolling stop which means it's inconvenient to hit down 3 times, or it's around 40 mph in fourth. That one I'd frequently pop left and down on the stick for a quick 3rd gear. For highway passing, pop left and you have 4th, but as mentioned above, it will still jump to 3rd w/ powerloss if you gun it too hard.

[PXLpainter]

Well - I'm learning that if I treat it like shifting down on a bike at a stop (or under 20mph) it will go down to 1st okay and I really don't have to think about it too hard. You just have to "up-shift" about 1500 RPMs before redline and it will eventually shift at redline if you're gunning it.

The typical problem that most ATs have is the way it shifts between gears, it's actually in both gears for a moment to create a "smoother" shift, so for about a 1/2 second, you'll be really out of gear until the tranny finally makes that jump from 1st-2nd, 2nd to 3rd, etc...

Now in the "old days" we used to get a shift kit and the linkage shortened on the big block V8 American cars/trucks. This eliminated the "smooth" shifting action and dumped you right into the next gear without any lag or hesitation whatsoever. Then you actually had an advantage over the manual shift fellas and could kick their arse in a drag!

I wouldn't race my grandma in her Olds the way this thing is right now.

JF

[TW85]

Sounds like you have it worse than I do. My car has actually been shifting nicely lately but I attribute it to being more aggressive on the throttle and the ECU learning I want more performance. The problem with the slow, lagging shifts (auto or manual mode) is the worst when you're easy on the throttle.

I have to say that after my ECU was reprogrammed the car was wanting to be more aggressive than my foot. I just wish these engineers would stop trying to make the cars smarter than you (except for when safety is involved) by having the car learn your driving style. Better yet, offer various shifting programs that are selectable by a dash/console button rather than cater to the economy freaks.

edit: Dang, forgot this was the '06 thread. Oh well, same thoughts apply.

[PXLpainter]

<snip>

I have to say that after my ECU was reprogrammed the car was wanting to be more aggressive than my foot. I just wish these engineers would stop trying to make the cars smarter than you (except for when safety is involved) by having the car learn your driving style. Better yet, offer various shifting programs that are selectable by a dash/console button rather than cater to the economy freaks.

edit: Dang, forgot this was the '06 thread. Oh well, same thoughts apply.

No worries - and amen to your thoughts bro!!

I mean, seriously - are they trying to take control of the Manual Trans folks' shifting habits? Granted, they only have 4-bangers, but so what?

All I can hope for is that we bug enough 3rd-party folks to see there really is a demand for performance (i.e. control over) these V6s!

JF

[PXLpainter]

Well - I got a call from Carson Toyota today - they said they called the Toyota factory and the word back is that you can't load the old information into the new ECU without over-writing the entire ECU memory - which means they CAN'T use the 04/05 TSB Flash on the 06 ECU!!

So I asked her to find out from the factory who my lawyer needs to name in the next law suit I have to file when I get rear-ended by someone while merging into fast traffic or pulling out into traffic and my car hesitates for a second too long?

I'll be getting a call back tomorrow she assured me.

In the mean time - if any of you have had the 04/05 TSB Flash done on your 06, please let me know which dealership you went to so my dealer can ask them how they did it. I won't mention any names, trust me!

Thanks! Jeff

[dude]

what wrong with over writing entire ecu memory? i did docjohns trick, disconneted batt but i have had my 04 flashes done. not perfect, but much better and acceptable. manual mode makes no diff. i think after disconnect battery is when tranny "learns", and that easy driving is better. when i drove aggresive to "teach" computer, it confuses comp bec there is no algorithm for the way i am driving and it downshifts too early and too many gears so there is no torque unless the pedal is very close to floor and then the revs are there anyways. when it learns a less aggressive mode, it will only drop one gear or hold gear when anything but very aggressive use of throttle is applied, which is the way it should work. i hate this learning mode and also it's auto downshifts on hills when brakes applied. i dont agree that lawsuits and lawyers will result in much satisfaction with specific concern. it might, but is unlikely. it is more likely to cause anyone working at a dealership or at toyota from helping you, let alone talking to you. unless, of course, you do get into accident and are injured. but i dont think you want to go there, and if you did, why would you have driven the vehicle in a way you know doesnt respond? but hey, thats just my 2c... and if anyone thinks the dealers and toyota are evil, what about the friking lawyers? they dont care whether your solara is upshifting, downshifting or sticking out of yur butt....-not "your" butt, but anyones butt. oh, and another thing, toyota corp and all other manafactures know that there are certain individuals just trying to return the car and get a new one so that route is much more difficult or trying to threaten them into "helping" you with this kind of thinking. your best bet to help you is to find out why you cannot reprogram the ecu and do flashes, do docjohns trick, disconnect battery and drive smoothly and easily for next few days, and consider cpe intake. hey, this is free advice. what does your lawyer charge and what is his advice?

[swindler]

Just to add my 2¢...

Nothing different, just affirming what's already been said. I took my '06 in with the TSB in hand and after 30 minutes was taken back to the service area so I could SEE the flash codes to confirm that the 'fix' was already there. Got the story about the engineering issues and countless visits - not just from Solara owners - but many Toyota owners about what is likely an issue that will never die.

It was at that time that I decided to do the DocJohn intake mod, and the improvement was quite good, to the point that I hardly notice it. I would recommend this mod to anybody that's at all bothered by the lag. But it still gets me once in a great while. I also took out the intake silencer and swapped out the air filter for a K&N. That might help a little too.

I've order the MAFci (which obviates all of those changes) and I hope that it offers an even greater improvement. I'll let you know when it finally happens.