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SolaraGuy.com • View topic - exciting news from urdusa
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exciting news from urdusa

exciting news from urdusa

Postby gman » Mon Sep 19, 2005 5:53 pm

A buddy of mine sent me this from Gadget at URD and man it sounds good. Hopefully the price will be attractive. This will greatly increase throttle response and give some extra power a few seconds earlier. See what you think......My question was

Hello Gadget,
I was told you are the resident guru on Toyotas. When you can find the time, can you tell me what the variables are that determine when the ecu goes from closed loop to open loop? For example is it the throttle position switch and maf, is it load % which you can read off some obdII tools. Any help you can supply would be great!! I am trying to figure out why my car takes so long go into open loop on part throttle at 2-3 pounds of boost.

And his response.....

Generally it is throttle position, full throttle usually gets you instant open loop.

The engine starts in open loop and when you decelerate from engines speeds above 1500 with the throttle closed it will go into open loop fuel cut and will go back into closed loop when it gets a clean signal from the O2 sensor.

The rest is load related. The calibration is different for every car and it is for keeping the cats from melting down. It can be time/load related. This calibration is from extensive calibration testing monitoring the cat temps. In normal operation you will never feel any difference, but when you strap on an aftermarket supercharger it whacks this calibration way out of whack. It is now making more power with much less throttle and you can smoke up the cats from excessive temps and it is not real good for the engine either.

So, how do we fatten up the mix earlier?? URD has been very hard at work on this and we have had some fantastic brake through. On the older vehicles equipped with O2 sensors we used the ESC gadget from Split Second to force the ECU to stop trimming fuel in boost, but this did not work on the newer vehicles with the air/fuel ratio sensors.

We have now developed a device that interfaces with the new air/fuel ratio sensors and it allows us to precisely map the AFR in closed loop. We can make it ANYTHING we want in closed loop. Like I said this is a real brake through. We have about finished out R&D and testing the production prototype units and should have them for sale very soon.

You will need to use it in conjunction with a MAF signal calibrator like our PCU/FTC boxes, AFC or so on.

Now here is the kicker. It seems that when we lean out the mix a tad in light load conditions, MPG takes a jump up. We are seeing a 2-3 MPG increase with this.

Stay tuned and keep checking the URD site for an announcement very soon.

Gadget
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Postby StockSolara » Mon Sep 19, 2005 10:15 pm

nice
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Postby dominoSLEV6 » Mon Sep 19, 2005 11:44 pm

I'm kindve slow on some things... can you explain that a little better, the whole closed loop/open loop thing?

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Postby DatSRBoi » Tue Sep 20, 2005 12:16 am

Holy cow...Sounds expensive and high tech..
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Postby gman » Tue Sep 20, 2005 4:46 am

dominoSLEV6 wrote:I'm kindve slow on some things... can you explain that a little better, the whole closed loop/open loop thing?

-chris


Chris
While in closed loop the ecu will try to maintain a 14.7:1 air/fuel ratio. this is what the factory ecu knows as the optimum mix for power and efficiency. Once too much air is recognized by the ecu and more fuel is required, efficiency is no longer the objective, it is power. The ecu will then go into open loop and a air/fuel ratio of approx. 12:1 is better suited for performance. There is an in between area that could use more fuel but the ecu fights it and tries to keep a 14.7:1 afr. This feels like a slightly dead spot when excelerating. If the air/fuel could be adjusted in closed loop to say a 13.3:1 afr on 1-3 lbs of boost you would get a feeling of more linear power more often. Unless you have a s/c on your car and have done some tuning with a wideband O2 and OBDII scanner and you can actually see it go from closed to open and feel the difference when it does, this will probably be hard to explain. JB has made some discussion on the whole world of fuel trims and open and closed loop. Hope this helped. Hopefully it will not be too pricey!! This would really make driving a blown camry/solara more fun.
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Postby SPF 0 » Tue Sep 20, 2005 6:40 am

I've always understood that 14.7:1 ratio (by weight, not volume) was the optimal ratio, period. Above or below that, you'd want to adjust the engine for rich or lean running. This is not the case?
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Postby SC V6 » Tue Sep 20, 2005 6:57 am

in full throttle you want around 11.5-1 or so... 14.7 is a perfect air fuel ratio.. which is NOT for boost, but daily driving
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Postby gman » Tue Sep 20, 2005 7:27 am

SC V6 wrote:in full throttle you want around 11.5-1 or so... 14.7 is a perfect air fuel ratio.. which is NOT for boost, but daily driving


Also- if you spend some time searching the web you will find that even some n/a cars on full throttle need numbers in the 12s to really bring on the power. These cars are usually performance oriented to begin with. Of course 14.7:1 is more for normal driving. Power comes from combustion and when "normal" levels of air enter the combustion area "normal" fuel levels are expected. With more power requires more combustion hence more fuel is needed. Many variables play a part here when you talked about different cars and what performance is desired out of a given motor.
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Postby dominoSLEV6 » Tue Sep 20, 2005 3:30 pm

gman wrote:
dominoSLEV6 wrote:I'm kindve slow on some things... can you explain that a little better, the whole closed loop/open loop thing?

-chris


Chris
While in closed loop the ecu will try to maintain a 14.7:1 air/fuel ratio. this is what the factory ecu knows as the optimum mix for power and efficiency. Once too much air is recognized by the ecu and more fuel is required, efficiency is no longer the objective, it is power. The ecu will then go into open loop and a air/fuel ratio of approx. 12:1 is better suited for performance. There is an in between area that could use more fuel but the ecu fights it and tries to keep a 14.7:1 afr. This feels like a slightly dead spot when excelerating. If the air/fuel could be adjusted in closed loop to say a 13.3:1 afr on 1-3 lbs of boost you would get a feeling of more linear power more often. Unless you have a s/c on your car and have done some tuning with a wideband O2 and OBDII scanner and you can actually see it go from closed to open and feel the difference when it does, this will probably be hard to explain. JB has made some discussion on the whole world of fuel trims and open and closed loop. Hope this helped. Hopefully it will not be too pricey!! This would really make driving a blown camry/solara more fun.


Wow, thanks for the insight. I'm N/A but I'm always interested to learn more. I'll eventually be boosted so now I know this is something I'll want to look into. Thanks again gman.

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Postby DatSRBoi » Tue Sep 20, 2005 4:18 pm

Any benefits for N/A people?
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Postby SC V6 » Tue Sep 20, 2005 4:24 pm

sounds like they are going to try to manipulate the voltage reading from the o2 sensors to get a richer mix

my guess anyway
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Postby gman » Tue Sep 20, 2005 6:31 pm

DatSRBoi wrote:Any benefits for N/A people?


Unless you have port polished, cams, valves headers and such. Spend your money elsewhere.

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Postby Alex(AUS) » Sun Sep 25, 2005 6:50 am

This sounds good. I am waiting for the release.

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Postby gman » Fri Oct 21, 2005 8:57 pm

BUMP****

Ok all you supercharged guys. As of Monday the 24th the adjustable closed loop AFR unit is available. This will add all kinds of quick early power to your daily drive. Here is the url link. Worth the time, effort and price!!!!

http://www.urdusa.com/product_info.php? ... 1230100028
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Postby Mandarinsolara » Wed Nov 02, 2005 12:35 pm

i cant wait to see how many people f*** up their motors

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