* Grounding Kits Performance and more *PICS UP*

[JoeB]

I'm with all_red, I just don't see how adding these grounding wires can increase performance. PLEASE don't take this as a flame, it isn't intended that way. I have seen many people on different forums, with different platforms talking about these grounding kits but I've never been able to find a GOOD technical explanation of exactly how they help increase HP. I believe it could help audio performance but the engine? Until I can get a GOOD technical explanation, it is a pet rock to me...

I read on HKS' web site and they don't claim a hp increase only that:

improved idle and drivability are often obtained as the additional grounding points equalize resistance and voltage between various ground points.

I read "often obtained" as some platforms might have a pre-existing grounding issue...

I was an electronic technician for 10 years and definitely understand the advantage of tying grounds together for interacting DC components. DC (Direct Current) is simply a voltage potential above (or below) a referrence point (in most cases earth ground for safety reasons). When 2 components use different grounds, the voltage potential could be different. In a car engine where you are talking about a battery with a very wide tolerance for the voltage potential and alternators/regulators with very loose specs, I just don't understand why it is so important. For digital circuitry where a tenth of a volt can make the difference if a binary bit is recognized as a 1 or a 0, good grounding and filtering of the DC supply is very important. In a car, the common reference point for the DC potential is the frame (or chassis) ground. The battery is tied to it, the engine is bolted to it and electrical components are either connected to it or tied off the ground somewhere.

Using different gauge wires can have a minimal effect. with EVERY conductor of electricity, there is some resistance. Better conductors (like gold) have less resistance. Larger diameter wires (smaller gauge) have less resistance. There is less resistance if the wires are soldered to the connectors rather than simply crimped. So the idea of using heavy gauge wires to interconnect components in the engine together CAN improve grounding but I'm still looking for a technical explanation as to how that can give my car more power. Any help? Anyone seen a good reference? Thanks -JoeB

[mycrobyte]

I asked a two Electrical Engineers about this, one at Daimler Chrysler and one with Lucent, and well they both just said it may look nice but as far as any performance gains on an engine they could see no gain or improvement at all.

The Lucent EE went on to say that as far as car electronics go it would be less expensive and more effective to obtain proper grounding directly with your electronics than to use these 'circular ground' or similar type systems.

The DC EE said this is about as useful as the Tornado....

I'm still open to the idea if I can find some good technical sites which have some data. The only site I could find was one which stated in small print at the bottom that "no performance gains or fuel economy savings are expressed or implied..."

[2004Sport]

Its on car and drivers web site they did a before and after dyno with the kit on the car and it produced 3 whp im sure you can find it if not I will post it later tonight but even if you dont produce that 3 hp look at all the other great things you get out of it! ~~~With 5 wires cut to different sizes as needed, this kit will give you an additional 2-5 horsepower. How? The stockcar is grounded in usually 2 or 3 places. While losing electric current, the ground kit keeps a loop using the entire car. Improving gas mileage, turbo response, throttle response, improves electric power, and make headlights brighter~~~

http://www.3kgtmotorsports.com/documents/DynoSheets/3KGT2/3KGT2DynoChart1.jpg

also look at what people say!!

~Has anyone installed the grounding wire kit

~I haven't installed it, but everyone who has says they love it. It has been shoing 2-3 hp gains throughout the RPM band as well. It is also supposedly helping with throttle response and gas mileage

Check it out for your self sense non of you believe me!! http://www.6mt.net/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=1662

[Mole]

2-3 whp or not... having more than 2 puny grounds is always good.

[2004Sport]

People who are in

~TRDMole177
~rapsux2000

[JoeB]

2004Sport, it's not that I don't believe you but I need to understand a solid technical reason why this offers an improvement. I looked at the Car & Driver web site and found nothing. As for other people saying "Yeah man, really awesome stuff", "Everybody loves 'em!" it doesn't do anything for me. Some people will buy the stupidest stuff, pay good money and be absolutely convinced they got something for it. I am an Engineer and I need to understand a technical reason for something before I make a decision. Have you been able to find any links that could help? I don't mean a message forum where a bunch of people say they've heard good things or they installed it and it feels better. As for the dyno, there are many ways to manipulate that info. I'm not saying it IS fake but it could also be that grounding was a problem for that one specific car the wires were added to. I really would like to know if for no other reason than curiosity, how is it that improving the grounding in a car helps that much? I also wonder if all the car manufacturers that read and hear this stuff will suddenly realize that their engineers have been screwing up and haven't gotten the system grounding right all this time? -JoeB

[mycrobyte]

All is know is that two (Ph.D.) electrical engineers I went to Notre Dame with seemed to think:

Me, im just a lowly Technical guy with a masters in physics and chemistry degree so don't listen to me.


ah heck, they probably didn't know what they were talking about anyway. A bunch of kids on a forum absolutly know more that they ever could have learned

Gee whiz, it's only 80 bucks, go ahead and get a set. At that price go ahead and get an other set for your other cars also.

Oh, my grounding potential study did not show any significant resistance levels throughout the vehicle. I used a 4 gauge run of OFC Copper wire as a baseline by the way.

[MGLax13]

Buy some 4 gauge wire, alot of ring terminals, and you can make your own kit. That's all it really seems like it takes. You might need maybe 10 feet at most of wire, which will run you like $8, then maybe like 10-14 ring terminals (too lazy to go back and count) and that will run you probably another like $10, so it's $18 in total. You saved $62!...lol

[2004Sport]

you a little of on your prices buying the right copper plated wire and gold plated terminals is not cheep im not making any money on these kits i just did it for mt fellow solara owners!!

[Turbosolara]

huh, i did my own 4 gauge with gold terminal for $35 with some extra wires and terminals.

[mycrobyte]

ok, ultraslow, what did you notice?

[Turbosolara]

more stable rpm observed while idle. smoother while acclerate (it could be my imagination, or my new IK22). Didnt see brighter headlight or better stereo effect.

[SC V6]

whens the last day to let u know/

[2004Sport]

i should have them for a while

[TRDCamry]

Before I buy your wires, I want to know which company makes them. Because there are two different companies on ebay that make these for Solaras and Camrys, and theirs are about $40 after shipping. Also if I did decide to buy these, could you do the installation without charging extra? If so which zip code or area are you in and can you do the install on Sundays?