CP-e MAFci : why not ?

[Down2TheC]

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The CPE doesn't make much power. They hide that fact by selling you a crap piggyback that makes the majority of it then grossly over price the dumb thing.
AFA the exhaust. It's just a louder muffler. That's only good for a few horsepower.

Moron... That's the point. As he stated an intake alone barely makes power which is why we need the tuning to boost it. Our stock intake is not a major choke point so the big pipe did 2-3 hp on it's own. Without the tuning you have an Injen. With that in mind, realize that Injen claimed the same bump in HP as cp-e using their in house Dyno. (which I'm guessing is Adobe PhotoShop.)

So if you were a tuner and had an AFC and the dyno time to tune, you could get the injen or stay stock and make nearly the same power. But I don't think there are many folks with that rig. cp-e is much cheaper. Yeah, 10-12 whp isn't much. But show me the Solara mod that adds more and I'll place my order today.

[Biggi_e]

ditto

[Luce22]

All I can say is WOW. you can really feel a difference at accleration! I love the sound also! If you dont have one GET ONE!

[solaris]

does anyone have any manual or instruction on how to install this? i wanna read everything before i buy the MAFci to familiarize myself. sorry but i'm a total noob....thanks...

[canuck101]

manual aint gonna help you man. if you can change flat tire or you've changed oil couple times in your life and you can read english you will be just fine. Instructions are pretty good.

[Sebas007]

I'll try to do some readable pics of it.

Do you something wrong with it Down2Thec ??
I'll write Josh to ask about distributing the manual.

does anyone have any manual or instruction on how to install this? i wanna read everything before i buy the MAFci to familiarize myself. sorry but i'm a total noob....thanks...

[Astro]

With that in mind, realize that Injen claimed the same bump in HP as cp-e using their in house Dyno. (which I'm guessing is Adobe PhotoShop.)

I think cp-e photoshopped their dyno....
Remember, Injen isn't a new company trying to get started. Why would they lie about this? Unlike cp-e, Injen has been tested and proven for years. Besides, they did dyno at 10-11 HP. Did you even dyno the Injen yourself? I'll bet they'll be on it if not close (depending on dyno) to those numbers.

The way you make it sound, this should be the hottest product around....
But, I'm guessing no one wants to pay $400+ for a tunable HOT-air intake

I'm sorry, I understand this is the best all you gen2 owners got. Is this why you're so biased on this?

[Sebas007]

You just say it...tunable...where all (85%) of the gains are. AFC for a real good AFR graph all the RPM band. HOT air...at 60 MPH(example) the air flows so fast under the hood that it is not hot as you saying.

Whatever...I dynoed it and it works. Injen without any modification to the AFR cannot do anything but makes sounds and be less retrictve comparing to the sotck system. Injen don't care about Solara....they wrote 2003-2004 Solara on there products...HELLO I'm Mr Injen and I don't care !!!!

http://www.solaraguy.org/viewtopic.php?t=18389&highlight=injen

With Injen you get a CEL from what I read on here...with CP-e none !
To be sure of what we are talking about...we just miss few dyno runs with and without the Injen and the CP-e.

With that in mind, realize that Injen claimed the same bump in HP as cp-e using their in house Dyno. (which I'm guessing is Adobe PhotoShop.)

I think cp-e photoshopped their dyno....
Remember, Injen isn't a new company trying to get started. Why would they lie about this? Unlike cp-e, Injen has been tested and proven for years. Besides, they did dyno at 10-11 HP. Did you even dyno the Injen yourself? I'll bet they'll be on it if not close (depending on dyno) to those numbers.

The way you make it sound, this should be the hottest product around....
But, I'm guessing no one wants to pay $400+ for a tunable HOT-air intake

I'm sorry, I understand this is the best all you gen2 owners got. Is this why you're so biased on this?

[Astro]

I've NEVER got the CEL and my wife had the prototype for the 3MZ. I'll bet people that got CEL's had other problems. I bet cp-e only makes stuff for the Solara because they need the money. Let's see where cp-e stands with Solaras in a couple of years....I hope, for your sake, they come out with more. We all know why Injen (let alone most companies) don't make the Solara a priority. So, as a company, why would you waste your time?

I don't praise Injen, just stating that it if you're going to bash it - prove it first. We all know what SRI's do and don't do. I'm just saying that for a very limited number of HP, it's not worth it. The 3MZ is weak, why spend money on performance. I'm not saying the 1MZ is any better, but at least we've got a something with a manual tranny and a s/c. I can't wait to see the day when a (Solara) modified 3MZ will dyno more than a modified 1MZ.

I'm sorry, don't be mad. IMO, a $400 tunable SRI + 3MZ = waste of money.
If there wasn't a s/c for the 1MZ, I wouldn't have spent any money on performance. I'm glad you're happy with it, I hope you enjoy it.

[swindler]

Well, first off CP-e is by no means a company trying to prey off Gen 2 owners. In fact, it's the opposite. There's been a lot of begging and pleading for them to do anything for the Solara. Their bread and butter is Mazda. They have dozens of Mazda products for every Toyota product, and there's a decent chance they'll discontinue their Gen 1, 1.5, and 2 products if they don't get more interest.

But I must admit that I have been curious as to the true delta between the Injen and the tuned CP-e. I do think the CP-e gives better performance - but not because I've compared them in person, because the science of what the Injen offers versus what the CP-e offers tells me that I should do better with the CP-e setup.

But how much better? I don't think anyone has proof either way. But for the sake of this thread and every curious member in this community, I think we should get someone to do some dyno runs with a stock, Injen, and CP-e setup, and at least let the numbers tell the story.

As to Astro's comments that a CP-e isn't worth the money, (and apparently the Injen is close to that too), I'll say that it does become a question of one's own value. I think $2K is too much for a set of rims. But there are a lot of people on this forum that have spent that (or more).

Is the performance gain that much? I must also admit that I think there's a placebo effect going on. When the intake make that loud BRAAAAA when you floor it, you're going to feel like you're going faster than if the sound was muted. But part of the appeal of the product is the excitement you get when you accelerate. There's an entertainment value, so to speak. But I have to add to down2thec's comment. Show me somewhere else I can get that gain for that amount of money.

Is the CP-e worth the extra money over an Injen? Let's test it and find out.

[CASTRO]

i still want a tuned map for my s/c. any updates on a verified tuned box that i can use? based on the research on different threads, it leans out the top end, which is not good in my case. BTW, imma be honest, the 3 inch grabbing hot air wont help me any as I allready have the injen+cai and just plan to do a hybrid with a tuned box. my setup + a tuned box vs. 3inch pipe hot air should be similar.

[Sebas007]

You guys starting to put the CP-e gains in question !?!?!?

Astro,
I'm just curious...on which facts you base yourself to tell that the 3MZFE is weak ?? I heard too that it cannot take so much boost...but on what you base yourself to tell that ?

There is no comparaison between Injen and CP-e...maybe just on the sound.

I'm sad to know that some of the guys here are negative as that..."CP-e make that because they need money"... CP-e make it because they tought we were aftermarket parts customer !!!


The palacebo effect...yeah I think I lived it also on pretty hot day !! I think that it has difficulties to breath...it would be the same with Injen (it still just an intake..a pipe that goes behind the battery...) but nowsaday it pretty cool !! The boost is there !! I went twice to dyno run...once in April it was cold, 54F intake air temp, perfect for the engine. I tested the stock (TRD Muffler + K&N air filter) I got 184 whp and 196 tq...I went in July it was hot 87.5F intake air temp...I got 183 whp/ 190 tq.

I based my simulation's calculation on those facts (http://www.hardtail.com/techtips/airdensity.html)

Each 5 deg. F change in temperature (away from 60 deg. F), you get about a 1% change in air density.
At 60 degrees, jumping from zero to 50% humidity will cost you roughly 1% in air density. That same 50% humidity at 90 degrees will cost you more than 2% in air density.
An 8% drop in air density will cost you about 6% in power


Stock CP-e MAFci Diff. % Diff Air Density
Air Intake Temp 54,3 87,5 33,2 6,6
Humidity 30% 61% 31% 1,4
Total 8,0

(reffering to the rule An 8% drop in air density will cost you about 6% in power…I concluded to a lost of 6%)

183.2 hp * 1.06 = 194.192 whp
190tq * 1.06 = 201.4 tq


I'll edit my post tomorrow and link my dyno slip...I'm so tired tonight sorry !!

[Astro]

Astro,
I'm just curious...on which facts you base yourself to tell that the 3MZFE is weak ?? I heard too that it cannot take so much boost...but on what you base yourself to tell that ?

After watching JoeB, Rizal, Greg, and Gabe struggle to max out power on the 1MZ over the past few years, I know the 3MZ is in the same boat, if not worse. This is why I think TRD didn't put a s/c on it, I'm surprised they even built one for the 1MZ. Also, someone here blew their 3MZ using a relatively low amount of NOS...

[CASTRO]

^
i remember from reading a while back that the s/c was never made because of the VVTI being the weak link. Cool slight bump in hp for N/A but the complications with forced induction + the inability to hold boost with the valve overlap.

[swindler]

You guys starting to put the CP-e gains in question !?!?!?...

No Sebastian, I'm not losing the faith and throwing away your religion.

I think the CP-e rocks and I'm very happy with the money I spent on it. My own belief is that the CP-e offers more performance than the Injen based on the theory of operations and on the discussions I've heard.

I'm just saying that I have yet to see any independent empirical evidence on how the Injen differs versus the CP-e. We have your tests on the CP-e, but I haven't seen independent tests on the Injen, only the manufacturer's claims. And ideally, any tests comparing the two would be done on the same engine, and with the same environmental conditions.

I think the lack of agreement we're seeing from various members are on two different topics.
1) Is the CP-e really that much better than the Injen?
2) Is the performance gain worth the $$$?

I believe that 1) is TRUE, but I'm an engineer and I would love to see the undeniable test data that proves it.

I believe that 2) is TRUE also, but I probably have more cash to play with than most of the guys here. Others might see that differently. But that is where I was saying it's a question of value to some. Some might think +20hp wasn't worth $400. Some others might think +7hp WAS worth $400. Everybody is different. We can let those opinions vary and it doesn't hurt anybody.

But even though I will spend a little more to get performance, I go the other way on appearance. I basically haven't changed the appearance of my car inside or out. But I have put about $2K in overall mods so far. You can't tell by looking at it. All performance, no frills. But hey, that's me.

To each his own, man.

(But let's do that independent Injen/CP-e test!)