***Gen 2 V6 - JPP Headers & Y Pipe - HISTORY & INFO

[crispone]

Jeff,

You GOTTA change the THREAD TITLE to:


"GEN 2 "Y" PIPE w/HEADERS - group buy..."


...or something...



-crisp

[Sebas007]

8 guys remaining !!

After all those bitching about the lack of support...this is it !

[PXLpainter]

There Crispy - sheeze! For a guy who LOVES to write so much you sure don't wanna READ the headlines, huh? LOL!!

[crispone]

There Crispy - sheeze! For a guy who LOVES to write so much you sure don't wanna READ the headlines, huh? LOL!!

You just gave me a WARM FUZZY!


Hmmm... WHAT DID YOU SCORE back there on the Gay-o-meter?



GWAAAAAAAAAAAHHHhhhhh ha ha ha ha ha!



(That'll be "BETTER BAIT" for the "GROUP" )


...just call me "CRISPROMOTER"... I'll work undercover for Sebas.


Heh heh heh...


-crisp

[Sebas007]

WTF with all of you guys !! Espacially Jeff "the Pixel Killa" and Q-pone haha

[PhreakdOut]

If I still had my Gen2, I'd be in for sure.

In my opinion, JPP had the quality and know-how for building a good product.
- Their head flanges look good. (Not cheap thin flat stock that is plasma cut in small quantities. The flange above appears to be stamped. Much less chance of warping or poor fit.
- Welds look good.
- Header design is good. Equal length runners with a smooth routing.
- It appears they struggle with multiple tight bends because they have to bend in pieces and weld together. This is not uncommon for small companies since 1D bends are difficult to do. This is not a bad thing, just expensive to produce but cheap compared to precision CNC mandrel benders.

One item that I think should be addressed in the design Dat used:
- The U-Bend pipe was eliminated and replaced with a short stub pipe. That is easier to make, but reduces low end torque.
- Even if the U-bend has to be made in 3 pieces, I'd recommend putting it back in the design.
- I'd suggest JPP make the down pipe inlet flanges available for sale for those who want to make a dual exhaust from the headers back.
Definately keep the flex section in the same location and diameter as OE.

For those of you sitting on the fence with this, definately jump in. If for some reason JPP decides not to go to production after the first run, you might be left out with no way to get headers. Opportunity is knocking...

[Sebas007]

PhreakdOut question for you about OEM setup.

Do all the restrictive parts on the exhaust is made to keep a certain amount of pressure in the engine for maximizing performance. I heard that some Asian company have this habbit in their design. I know the principle is more air, more fuel = more power

I was just seeking the main reason why they did a restrictive exhaust setup ? Can it be to control the power to not get too powerful to not beat some Lexus model...to not make in-house competition ? Can it be to be able to put better MPG numbers in magazine ? What else ??

If you can answer me on this I would really appreciate

[PhreakdOut]

PhreakdOut question for you about OEM setup.

Do all the restrictive parts on the exhaust is made to keep a certain amount of pressure in the engine for maximizing performance. I heard that some Asian company have this habit in their design. I know the principle is more air, more fuel = more power

I was just seeking the main reason why they did a restrictive exhaust setup ? Can it be to control the power to not get too powerful to not beat some Lexus model...to not make in-house competition ? Can it be to be able to put better MPG numbers in magazine ? What else ??

If you can answer me on this I would really appreciate

Every small change to exhaust, fuel mapping, timing, ECU programming has some impact to the torque and power curves.

Of course, Toyota buyers couldn't care less if their cars have more horsepower over 5K RPM. since the transmission programming will not let them stay in that range very long. The idea is to tune the power to all hit within the most common operating range. (Between 2000-3700 rpm).

In the case of exhaust, adding some restriction shifts this curve. (As does the general layout of the pipes.) Longer runners off the cylinders increases low end torque at the expense of upper end power. Inversely the same for short runners increasing upper end power.

Fuel economy is also a major concern. As you can imagine, increasing power will also impact fuel economy. Now we can easily measure horsepower on a dyno and see what impact a small change has. But the fuel economy is a difficult test that is only done a couple times during the development. During development, fuel economy is modeled by computer. (Because the actual test is not repeatable enough accurately measure the impact of small changes.) It is not uncommon for the first actual fuel economy test to be run on a first preproduction vehicle. If the computer models were way off, the car maker will try to adjust the design in the least expensive way that will shift the power curve. The ECU's fuel and timing programming is usually the first to be hit. After that is usually the exhaust. (Because it is easy to change and tooling is minimal.)

Emission Performance will also be a driving factor. Slowing the exhaust flow will obviously slow the exhaust through the converter, giving more time for the reaction to take place. This also allows for a smaller converter to be used. The cost difference between a Big3 converter substrate and one by Toyota is usually over $100. This doesn't sound like much, but on Camry production, it represents a estimated $45 million dollar savings.

Sorry for the long winded response. I hope this helped.

[PXLpainter]

Great stuff Brian - thanks!

[PXLpainter]

I just heard back from JP - I had asked him what the difference was between the Gen 1 and Gen 2 V6 headers since they share the same block, as well as comments about the Y-pipe. Here's his response:

"I'll have to look at one. I thought I remember there being a little more room. If there is we could make a longer header. As far as the y pipe the placement of the flex joint has to be the in the same location as stock. It's positioned is crucial in order to let the motor rock. When you move it
back it will break the flex joint sooner or later. I tried a few designs way back when we were dynoing the crap out of Eric's Solara."

So I'll be talking with them this week about getting mine down to their shop and them having a look at it.

We're making steps guys!! I really want to see this happen!!

[Sebas007]

^^^

Props for you to push this forward !
I want it too as you.

[PhreakdOut]

I just heard back from JP - I had asked him what the difference was between the Gen 1 and Gen 2 V6 headers since they share the same block, as well as comments about the Y-pipe. Here's his response:

"I'll have to look at one. I thought I remember there being a little more room. If there is we could make a longer header. As far as the y pipe the placement of the flex joint has to be the in the same location as stock. It's positioned is crucial in order to let the motor rock. When you move it
back it will break the flex joint sooner or later. I tried a few designs way back when we were dynoing the crap out of Eric's Solara."

So I'll be talking with them this week about getting mine down to their shop and them having a look at it.

We're making steps guys!! I really want to see this happen!!

Excellent. Here's the odd part, the Solara flex is positioned in a spot I normally would not place it. Usually, the flex is located directly under the centerline of the crankshaft. I would have guessed the stock location it is in now would have a problem with shear failures.

It's working for Toyota so leave it there.

Thanks for spearheading this Jeff. And if they happen to make anything for the RX-8, put in a good word for a fellow Mod who likes discounts.

[---CAMRAZY---]

Jeff, I am also glad you are pushing this and glad the block info helped....

[zedrick1985]

I'm really interested in the headers... add me to this list and let me know when we can get this rolling! i have one question though... is the Y-pipe the same as dual exhaust?...if so how will that look for the rear bumper?... i havent had time to post pic's of my solara up here... ill do it soon =)

[PXLpainter]

I'm really interested in the headers... add me to this list and let me know when we can get this rolling! i have one question though... is the Y-pipe the same as dual exhaust?...if so how will that look for the rear bumper?... i havent had time to post pic's of my solara up here... ill do it soon =)

If you're going duals, you'll want either a true-straight-out dual setup or a crossover "X" pipe. V6s usually work better with the "X-pipe" than one line run per 3 cylinders - at least from what I remember from my Tundra/Taco days.

I'll put you on the list though... we'll hammer out details as we go. I just think they're flabbergasted there is so much interest within the first 72 hours!

And yes, Phreak - as you mentioned, they also suggest leaving the flex in the same location as OEM as well.

Milt - thanks for that block info - I had no idea, but he's looking into it. This may make it go through much faster now - especially if they already have some of the Gen 1 V6 headers sitting around and only have to make a few minor mods to make them work for us!

Thanks again for the support guys - more updates as the week progresses!