Need advice : CAI extension for CP-e

[michaels artic frost]

Good luck Sebas, we're all pulling for ya.

-M

[Sparky5e]

Those are some significant increases you have calculated.

I have a question which has held me up from getting the Cp-e. Living in the midwest we have this thing called winter, although milder then Quebec. Are there any concerns running this setup when the temperatures really drop? It seems bad enough having an open element in the engine compartment but you should get some tempered air from the engine heat with it. Has anyone had any issues with this?

To do it like Sebas, there is a possibility to pull in -20F air pulling air from the fog light area on those wicked cold mornings .

[Sebas007]

Hey Sparkey,

The extension is not a weld together forever and ever thing Just put it back to normal if you are scared about any issue regarding temp. I heard also the same stuff about too cold air is not better...but it goes directly in the opposite way as the air density formula. If someone know the real scientific explanation regarding that...would like to know too.
For spring and melting snow this is not an issue unless you submerge the filter completely and for that you have to get a realy big badluck !!


By the way guys I will not route my CAI in the fog area but more near the area between the battery and the headlight. The route to the CAI would be too restrictive...at least more restrictive than the simple route I'm taking to go to between the battery and headlight. For the little diff it has...I'll do it like this.

Those are some significant increases you have calculated.

I have a question which has held me up from getting the Cp-e. Living in the midwest we have this thing called winter, although milder then Quebec. Are there any concerns running this setup when the temperatures really drop? It seems bad enough having an open element in the engine compartment but you should get some tempered air from the engine heat with it. Has anyone had any issues with this?

To do it like Sebas, there is a possibility to pull in -20F air pulling air from the fog light area on those wicked cold mornings .

[crispone]

Hey Sebas, great activity!


My approach would not try to "extend" the pipe and place the FILTER out at the very end where the COLD AIR was actually being taken in... rather, I would try to run COLD AIR right UP TO the current filter location, thereby leaving the CP-e plumbing dimensions and length, etc... alone. You may need to create a partial or complete "enclosure" around the FILTER... with at least 3.5" plumbing FEEDING COLD AIR into it for the filter to draw from.

(I don't know if that would work "better", but it should eliminate any effect to the MAFci setup on the CP-e, I should think.)


Just some thoughts... keep us posted!


-crisp

[Sebas007]

Yeah it is a way to see it Chris !

I gonna do both extend the CP-e with aluminum pipes and 1 silicone 45 elbow to get near the corner between battery and headlight. I will keep it close to the fuses box as possible...far as possible from the engine and radiator. I'll keep it OVER the structural beam where my HID box sits.
I'm almost sure that the dimension...at least the lenght was just limited by the free space under the hood...that's all. Will ask Josh about it.

At the other end...I'll route the colder air from the fog area to inside engine bay. I will then use an heat shield near the filter to block the shine from the engine and I'll probably use an aluminum isolating tube all around the LRI (Long Ram Intake haha)...samething as for the oven exit

The diff between fog and battery area or not big enough to try to do a complicated route like I planned to do.

with the info I've I think that it is the best way to do it right. Efficient still very easy to do...easy to switch back to normal for winter (as long as someone can answer why cold winter air is not better than normal summer air...) .

I'll do it during the 2 weeks I got off (starting this friday ! )

Hey Sebas, great activity!


My approach would not try to "extend" the pipe and place the FILTER out at the very end where the COLD AIR was actually being taken in... rather, I would try to run COLD AIR right UP TO the current filter location, thereby leaving the CP-e plumbing dimensions and length, etc... alone. You may need to create a partial or complete "enclosure" around the FILTER... with at least 3.5" plumbing FEEDING COLD AIR into it for the filter to draw from.

(I don't know if that would work "better", but it should eliminate any effect to the MAFci setup on the CP-e, I should think.)


Just some thoughts... keep us posted!


-crisp

[Sebas007]

It will change the tune if you put bends in front of the Mass air flow
sensor. You will have to retune it as the air will be more turbulent as it
comes into the housing of the mass air flow sensor. We all ways try to put
the sensor near the filter. IF that is not possible then you need to make
sure you have a lot of straight section before the air hits the mass air
flow sensor. I would defiantly check the car on the dyno after making these
changes. Let me know how it goes. Thanks again.

Very Respectfully,

Josh Adams

From there I ask what to do to relocated the MAF (get rif off the CP-e pipe and make a new one...) or just try making straight as possible...or like Crisp said...bring the air around the filter (less hp improvement) but "safer". I'm waiting for some answer from him about it right now.

[panic]

Re: "the proximity of the CAI pipe form the radiator is not a big deal at all, since air is a good isolating"

I disagree.
The CAI located as shown is in the "prop wash" of the radiator, and will getting 180+° F air continuously by convection. Air is also not an insulator to heating by radiation - luckily, this is minimal except at very low speeds.
Aluminum is almost the worst material for the tube (silver or copper would be worse) because it transfers heat too quickly. Steel tubing polished, plated, or painted silver is much better, the weight difference is only a few grams.

I agree that any bend at all should have the largest possible radius and the smallest angle in degrees.

A change from 70mm (2.75" = stock?) to 3.5" will hurt flow if done abruptly, or adjacent to a bend, but is helpful if done as a 14° or smaller included angle taper - which is nearly impossible given the space limits.
I'm not at all sure that a larger TB, MAF etc. is much help unless the peak power RPM goes up. A a rule of thumb, 180 f/s is low loss and harmless as an air speed in an entry tube:
D (inches) = (Liters × VE × (max RPM + 500) ÷ 3,330)^.5
D = (Liters × VE × (max RPM + 500) ÷ 3,330)^.5
D = (3.31 × 100% × 6,300 ÷ 3,330)^.5
D = (6.262)^.5
D = 2.502" or 63.6mm
Conclusion: the stock diameter is very good at 70mm, even assuming the VE is 100.
The Toyota/Lexus 4.0 liter V8 (1UZ-FE) and 4.6 Ford V8 are 70mm also.

If you raised the peak power to 6,800 (+1,000):
D = (3.31 × 100% × 7,300 ÷ 3,330)^.5
D = (7.256)^.5
D = 2.694" or 68.4mm

Rather than spend money for a small increase, if you can adapt the TPS etc. use the Cadillac Northstar V8 - 75mm.

One reason why a larger TB "feels better" is pretty simple: it does not simply provide more air (= power) beyond the stock TB.
It provides more air at every throttle angle, which is what your TPS is reading. This means that at (example only) a 30° throttle disc opening the larger TB is providing the same volume that required 35° originally. How well the electronics match this to duty cycle? IKBA.

[1stSolara]

wow...my head hurts

[crispone]

Sebas!

What ever happened to this? Thinking back... I remember how my SUPRA CAI went...

I just "channeled" "cold air" from BENEATH the front fog light with a "scoop" that brought it UP into the AREA of the HKS (mushroom looking) SuperPowerFlow air intake. I also created some "barrier" to place the airstream directly "AT" (if not INTO) the filter. My SEAT OF THE PANTS results were a POSSIBLE improvement... (seriously, on 400HP... it's hard to notice the incremental change without measurement!)

Needless to say, it did SEEM a little better, and since the air it USED to pull in was CLEARLY hot under the hood, I believe there IS a benefit. Perhaps with the Supra, it wouldn't hurt to EXTEND the plumbing to that location eventually... since my air/mass sensor is not AT the intake, but up by the BUTTERFLY on the TP and uses a SPEED/DENSITY probe, so NO impact to change the intake area plumbing... PLUS it's a PRESSURIZED intake through the TURBO anyway.

In the case of the CP-e, I STILL think you will greatly risk NEGATIVELY impacting the MAF performance without a special dyno map, and even then, I suspect you will HURT responsiveness... even if the MAX HP is improved. (Anyone know the science to this?)

So... how did/is it going?

-crisp

[crispone]

Funnier still... MY head hurts just to THINK of digging that far back into past posts to follow-up!

HA HA!


-crisp

[Chinky420]

^^x2

i thought sebas already installed and posted pics in the pics/vids section....?

[Sebas007]

I post some pics in the tutorial I made. http://www.solaraguy.com/viewtopic.php?t=34705

..but I didn't made any follow-up regarding the improvement like channel the fresh air from the fog. I don't know where I wiould make stand the curve piece of plastic. I tried also to do a custom heat shield. I give up seeing it wasn't making any difference. The big filter stand behind the high beam light stick to the frame. I don't know if it sucking the air from the radiator but I don't think so. This summer I used my 2 weeks vacation solving the little problems I had...rattles from the rear passenger side panel, stupid amp by-pass, lightning.

I still have a battery in the trunk plenty of room in the front but no big $$ to pursue anything serious ! For now I will try to clean my car and remove the stratches I have to make it look younger. I still make around 15's on quarter mile even with pretty used stock tires (they suck !!!!!)

[panic]

I've heard that some plastic tubing (like ABS, big smooth bends) can be heated in a microwave then squashed, re-bent, flared it to some extent - but he wouldn't tell me which plastic.

Anyone heard this?

BTW: since there's no tuned length anymore, there's no reason to limit the air intake points to only 1 (except for the irritation of joining them before you get to the plenum) if it gives you more intake area and more X-section area.

I'm looking for a press announcement or magazine interview with Toyota where they claim how much better the dual path air intake system is. From that you might guess at how much is lost, vs. what the larger and colder intake gives.

[Wraith]

I'm really interested in this MAF ci system from CP-e ... Do they have actually dyno numbers after the ecu re-adjust the maps ???

All these new ecus adjust the maps to configure the mapping close to stock as possible anytime you try to adjust injector duty cycle, a/f ratio, ignition timing or try to fool the maf ... I know this from for sure from past experience...

[Sebas007]

All these new ecus adjust the maps to configure the mapping close to stock as possible anytime you try to adjust injector duty cycle, a/f ratio, ignition timing or try to fool the maf ... I know this from for sure from past experience...

I think you're right ! even if the signal is really modified...the ECU still have "the last word" weird as it appears to be. I got this feeling too