When do you hit boost? Some questions...

[Eye8Pussies]

This may seem like a stupid question...but when does your car hit boost?

Here in TO, there aren't many boosted camry/solara's, and many of them go into hibernation come the cold, so I don't have the chance to ride in people's cars to confirm my own setup.

And of course, as well, there's nobody else with a blower installed on a gen3 (and specifically the gen1 1mz) around.


From what I can gather so far from my setup and driving:
- Boost is about throttle response, not rpm
- You almost never hit full boost unless you go WOT
- Boost kind of creeps up slowly sometimes
- Unless I'm in a really low gear, or going really fast already, there's no way I can hit boost before 3K- unlike the toyota advertised "more torque at 2200rpm than a stock engine makes a peak"


Long story short, because my car has an auto, the power never really slams you back in your seat and is a more gradual buildup and you don't know how fast you're really going until you start flying past people.

The tough thing of course is that the vacuum lines on the gen1 1mz motor is totally different than those on a gen2 1mz motor which the blower was designed for, so I'm not sure if those characteristics are right....


Any thoughts? I'm planning on going more boost, which will solve this problem, but I don't want to move on until I've hit the full potential of my current 4psi setup.

I still have a 255lph HP walbro to install, but fuel doesn't seem to be the problem since with the return fuel system of the gen3 camry, I now have an fpr installed and plenty of fuel pressure at all times. and I also have an safc that I will be installing after the pump is in.

thanks guys.

[CASTRO]

boost is based on load, so the more load there is, the vacuum goes away, the little bypass closes and the engine is fed boost. I've tried both setups, one going through the original VSV setup and having the EBC control when or where I have boost, and another where the bypass vacuum hose is re routed directly back to a vacuum port underneath the s/c for a more direct feel. With the 2nd setup, boost comes in instantly and you can actually get the max supplied boost in any RPM depending on the rate the s/c is spinning. You should be safe for now and no need to worry unless you got it hooked up directly.

[made in china]

My boost experience comes from when I installed a Jackson SC on a 2001 Prelude, so not the same engine, but just like Castro said about what the EBC does, the experience in the Prelude was similar to your experience. My assumption with the SC Prelude was that the H22 would suddenly feel like a big V6 with killer top end, and probably I would assume that the 1MZ with a SC would feel like a smaller V8...but that EBC kept the H22 feeling mostly stock until VTEC hit which is where all the power and boost came together in a pretty decent dose of increased power. However, unless you drove it hard, the car felt "normal". If I was to SC my 1MZ, I would seriously consider doing like Castro says since I would prefer more low end punch to emphasize the blower's added power. Anyways, it seems that your 1MZ is probably performing as expected, but maybe you should check into modding it like Castro suggests. However, your MPG may suffer!

[CASTRO]

^
to add to china's response, it does start boosting earlier, but due to the engine not knowing that there is a s/c there, the MAF can't compensate enough or at the right time for boost. There is a little bit more punch without the EBC and throttle is more direct even with an A/T, but I'm still not satisfied. The Engine or ECU doesnt know theres an S/C added, but instead just knows that there is more air comming in. I just recently ordered a Split Second ESC1 which as soon as the vacuum goes away and you hit even 1/2lbs of boost, it sends a signal to the ECU telling it to go into OPENLOOP mode. The motor is great for gas saving, but lets face it, anytime the car is in boost, fuel economy is the least thing to worry about. With my current OBD2 scanner, it seems that the ECU never wants to get into OPENLOOP fast enough, even while boosting 2-3lbs. During that time, there seems to be a lag. Read up on old posts by gman and Vampire, it will explain everything. As soon as I get the ESC1 installed, ill give a full review and also compare to see if the ECU switches to OPENLOOP faster as soon as boost comes into play. BTW, the ESC1 different from and A/F calibrator such as the SAFC2, etc because it doesnt mess with fuel and air readings. All it is there for is to "convert" an engine that is N/A to one that actually knows its boosted.

[Eye8Pussies]

well, first off, I don't have an ebc, since there is no way to properly wire it up to the gen3 camry ecu....as well as all the vacuum lines are differently designed/run

as it were, it took me and my buddy a full day just to make the car idle and run w/ the vacuum hoses


what I do have to say though, is that the car can go fast when I REALLY want it to, it just takes longer than I had hoped before hitting full boost. But by the same token, my gas mileage has not changed since I started boosting either, so that's a good thing I suppose.


and castro-> which bypass hose are we talking about to reroute? can you take a picture or give a good description of it? is it a bypass hose off the engine, or off the blower?

I'd like to try that and see if it makes a difference.

as well, what is the esc1? is it a piggyback?

[CASTRO]

Theres a little "flapper thing" or bypass on top of the blower that has an arm/lever attached to it. Follow the hose and just hook it up directly to a vacuum port underneath the throttle body. That way boost overlaps everything the engine does and is more mechanical. I dunno how your hoses are setup, but by doing this method, it skips a lot of other hoses and is cleaner IMO. ill try and dig up an old pic to post.

ESC1-kinda... as soon as it senses boost, then it triggers the openloop mode on the ECU and forgets about saving gas. You can have all the fuel mods out there, but if the ECU doesnt wanna start going into "performance" openloop when the blower starts boosting, then its still trying to save gas until about 3/4 or WOT is reached.

[JavaJoe_2]

what is the esc1?

URD should have the explanation for that

[crispone]

Man, I have all kinds of thoughts on boost from my experiences, and although SOME of the principles and their application is similar for S/C and TURBO applications, (in that they are both inducted...), since I am a TURBO guy, I'll leave my thoughts out unless someone is interested....

(....some people would prefer I don't stop at that Holiday Inn Express so often, anyway.... )

Anyway.... you guys' S/C experience details are very interesting to me....


-crisp

[CASTRO]

http://www.solaraguy.org/viewtopic.php? ... =ebc+bpass

can't find a pic that Vampire showed me but heres a big thread about a bunch of people talking about it and it shoudl give you a good idea of where to find it.

[CASTRO]

I still have a 255lph HP walbro to install, but fuel doesn't seem to be the problem since with the return fuel system of the gen3 camry, I now have an fpr installed and plenty of fuel pressure at all times.
thanks guys.

hmm... ive gotta look into those Gen3 1MZ fuel systems. been wanting to convert my returnless system for a while, but not sure its worth it. JoeB in his solara ran it plain returnless with only a 190 walbro pump and just by constant tuning and monitoring, he was able to get more fuel than he needed. I do think a return style has its benifits, but for our motors with such low boost, it is sort of overkill since another member has allready proven that it can be done with a returnless style.

Crip or anyone know is there is a way to control furl pressure or tricks to a returnless system like our cars? I know the Honda guys are having great luck without going returnstyle.

[Eye8Pussies]

oooohhh....you mean the boost actuator bypass....

hmmm....the funny thing is that I've thought about that....because it works on vacuum, I had thought about hooking it straight up into a port off the throttlebody....

so that's what everybody's doing....


and I think I may look into the esc1 as well then....I'm only curious as to how it senses boost...it'll probably be a mechanical signal turned into an electrical signal to a piggyback on the ecu? and that is when an safc tune would be much more usefull since it only works in open loop- and your car will then be in open loop most of the time.....but damn...gas mileage will suffer for sure then.

when it comes to having a return fuel system, I think it's more of a safety feature. even with a returnless sytem such as the one on the gen4, after a getting a better pump as well as jim's fuel mod (or your own version to get more fuel to the front rails), you should be pretty good for a decent amount of boost as long as you can make sure that the fpr on the fuel pump side allows it to pump out enough fuel....but then it comes to very careful condigurations.....you need enough fuel....but not too much....the problem lies in having too much fuel and it stays in the rails and heats up and then combusts....

the beauty of a return system though is that the fpr can be better controlled through your own adjustments and according to certain conditions, and any unused fuel will be returned to the tank regardless. as well, then modifications such as jim's fuel mod is pretty much useless since you can just make sure enough pressure reaches the fpr before returning to the tank and you definately have enough fuel. only tough part is that you can't really be sure if you have enough presure underload unless you're on a dyno and you can watch your fpr gauge while the car is running


edit -> just looked into the esc1....it's what I thought it was....except that it's more expensive than I thought it would be....

[808Camry]

That bypass mod did wonders for me, boost comes on instantly and the car is much more responsive. Just gotta watch that you're not always full boosting thorugh the gear shifts.

[siennasc98]

http://www.solaraguy.org/viewtopic.php?t=21850&highlight=ebc+bpass

can't find a pic that Vampire showed me but heres a big thread about a bunch of people talking about it and it shoudl give you a good idea of where to find it.

Is this the way you did it? The red hose from the barb on the by-pass actuator valve to the barb near the S/C - throttle connection plate.

[CASTRO]

kinda... but from the bottom barb, the hose goes on to the boost actuator bypass nipple. From the pic you posted, it doesn seem like anything is connected to the boost actuator bypass thing.

[siennasc98]

kinda... but from the bottom barb, the hose goes on to the boost actuator bypass nipple. From the pic you posted, it doesn seem like anything is connected to the boost actuator bypass thing.

There is. Here is a better angle.