Boosted but slower than stock!

[Dawgz]

SO get a SAFCII and go get it dyno'd / tuned

[hskrsolara]

^^yep, go to a professional dyno tuner and lay down the money for them to do whatever it takes. more than likely they will find the problem and fix it. It is certainly money well spent.

[Eye8Pussies]

hmmm....well, my ideas on this are a bit different than most....because after talking to gabe, it seems that our fuel systems (and ecu tuning maps) are very different...

I just put my 6psi pulley on, and long story short....the car now flies. I'm still having problems with that 3rd gear at lower rpm's, but the rest of the powerband has greatly increased.

Now, with your cars, it's hard to say, but I would think that at 4psi, no tuning would be necessary to gain at least a noticeable amount of power, considering that toyota had designed the charger for the solara and 4th gen camry, it should gain power for sure.

But on that note, the fact that many solaras boosting only 4psi can blow knock sensors, then we know that in the end it's the knock sensors that are the problem.

Whoever thinks that as long as you don't BLOW a knocksensor means that the knocksensors are fine, are wrong. A knock sensor retarding timing due to oversensitivity, actual knock, or the whine of the supercharger will cause MAJOR problems to the power of a car. Basically, that1mexicanguy's experience is probably either running lean and making the knock sensors go crazy from knock, or running wayyyy too rich and just bogging down the engine to the point where it makes less power than stock.

In your case, since your fuel mods are still limited, I would put my money on the fact that it's your knock sensors retarding your timing. The only real way to know though would be by getting an safcII with the knock sensor warning, getting a wideband, and then getting on a dyno to take a look at your actual power curve. Chances are that all the characteristics will add up (bad power curve, running superrich, knock sensor alarm going nuts) and you'll have to relocate your knock sensor (or try the knock sensor re-wiring mod to your less sensitive bank).

Here's a perfect example of what happens when your knock sensors are over sensitive.

These are two dynos from my auto NA 1994 Camry v6 w/ 1mzfe and bolt-ons. The first dyno is with the knowk knock sensor issue. The second one is from about 4 years later, with my knock sensors relocated (and also running on much heavier rims too). The difference in power was night and day. You guys can judge for yourselves.

[Dawgz]

hmmm....well, my ideas on this are a bit different than most....because after talking to gabe, it seems that our fuel systems (and ecu tuning maps) are very different...

I just put my 6psi pulley on, and long story short....the car now flies. I'm still having problems with that 3rd gear at lower rpm's, but the rest of the powerband has greatly increased.

Now, with your cars, it's hard to say, but I would think that at 4psi, no tuning would be necessary to gain at least a noticeable amount of power, considering that toyota had designed the charger for the solara and 4th gen camry, it should gain power for sure.

But on that note, the fact that many solaras boosting only 4psi can blow knock sensors, then we know that in the end it's the knock sensors that are the problem.

Whoever thinks that as long as you don't BLOW a knocksensor means that the knocksensors are fine, are wrong. A knock sensor retarding timing due to oversensitivity, actual knock, or the whine of the supercharger will cause MAJOR problems to the power of a car. Basically, that1mexicanguy's experience is probably either running lean and making the knock sensors go crazy from knock, or running wayyyy too rich and just bogging down the engine to the point where it makes less power than stock.

In your case, since your fuel mods are still limited, I would put my money on the fact that it's your knock sensors retarding your timing. The only real way to know though would be by getting an safcII with the knock sensor warning, getting a wideband, and then getting on a dyno to take a look at your actual power curve. Chances are that all the characteristics will add up (bad power curve, running superrich, knock sensor alarm going nuts) and you'll have to relocate your knock sensor (or try the knock sensor re-wiring mod to your less sensitive bank).

Here's a perfect example of what happens when your knock sensors are over sensitive.

These are two dynos from my auto NA 1994 Camry v6 w/ 1mzfe and bolt-ons. The first dyno is with the knowk knock sensor issue. The second one is from about 4 years later, with my knock sensors relocated (and also running on much heavier rims too). The difference in power was night and day. You guys can judge for yourselves.

Interesting, so basically what i had assumed from what "eric" had said earlier when i quoted his old old post....

I was searching the forum and found this thread...heres a quote from it

The detonation sensors are a piezo electric sensor that produce a voltage signal output when excited by sound or vibration, The resonant frequency of the piezo element is the frequency that the sensor will be the most sensitive too, and will produce the most voltage output with least amount sound or vibratory input at that frequency. These sensors do there job but are not a foolproof device and have manufacturing tolerances that will make them operate different from one sensor to the other.

I want to mention one more thing, my car before I did the ECU detonation sensor mod would drive like crap even without tripping the CEL because it thought it was detecting detonation, it would severely retard the ingition advance curve as preventative and protective measure is my estimation of what was happening. The car came alive after doing this mod and had better driveability even when not driving agressively.

When I did the mod at the ECU I did not know which connector was for which bank because I had lost that part of the wiring diagram. I only had the info for the ECU.

I disconnected both inputs to the ECU and then connected the two ECU inputs together in parallel. I did this by cutting and stripping back the wires.

Next I connect on of the inputs comming from the two sensors and test drove the car. My first guess was wrong and I got the symptoms that I was always experiencing. For testing purposes I tried leaving the sensors disconneted it almost immediatley tripped the CEL light. Then I connected the input from the other sensor and test drove the car and all was right for te first time.

I would take pictures and post them but I dont have the spare time, I suggest going to a local dealer and making friends with a mechanic and have him print you out the wiring connections to the ECU and do as I describe above.

heres the link to the thread


http://www.solaraguy.org/viewtopic.php? ... c&start=30




These guys were rewireing the ECU so it's knock sensor readings were from the front knock sensor, thinking its getting readings from the front and the back but in reality just the front.


Is this what i need to do?

[Dawgz]

so heres the diagram i have for the ECM, basically the ecu rite?




taken from my Pdf file for the EBC hook up, Plug e11's pin 27 and 28 are the knock sensors correct?

So let me see if I have this straight:

-The rear knock sensor (#1, which is closest to the firewall and the supercharger) is the one we want to ignore, so we rewire like this:

-Cut the white wire going to E11-27, and tape off the end of the wire coming from the knock sensor (the end going to the engine)
-Strip the other end of the cut wire, that is the end that goes to the ECM.
-Strip some insulation off the white wire going to E11-28, but do not cut the wire.
-Connect the stripped wires together: attach the stripped end from E11-27 to the stripped area on the wire going to E11-28.

Is this correct?

George

[Dawgz]

So the wires look like this rite now





and after the mod i want it to look like this correct? The blue being a wire cap / electrical tape. And the red being the Connection point of the two wires.

[that1mexguy]

Ok so you start off with this comment:

hmmm....well, my ideas on this are a bit different than most....because after talking to gabe, it seems that our fuel systems (and ecu tuning maps) are very different...

But then you say to him:

In your case, since your fuel mods are still limited, I would put my money on the fact that it's your knock sensors retarding your timing. The only real way to know though would be by getting an safcII with the knock sensor warning, getting a wideband, and then getting on a dyno to take a look at your actual power curve. Chances are that all the characteristics will add up (bad power curve, running superrich, knock sensor alarm going nuts) and you'll have to relocate your knock sensor (or try the knock sensor re-wiring mod to your less sensitive bank).

Ok so maybe is just me but doesn't that translate to something like "G-O G-E-T T-H-E C-A-R T-U-N-E-D!" ?!?!?! (a bit more detailed, but still the same idea)man stop trying to confuse the guy. If the car is NOT performing as expected, yet everything is working and there are no engine parts talking to him saying "here here, look at me! I'm the problem" then he needs to take it to a shop to get it tuned (if you read his previous posts, he said he had done a tune up - which I had to clarify is not the same as getting it tuned, therefore, please let him take it to a shop that can do the dyno to him). I'm willing to bet my next paycheck they will find the problem

Basically, that1mexicanguy's experience is probably either running lean and making the knock sensors go crazy from knock, or running wayyyy too rich and just bogging down the engine to the point where it makes less power than stock.

Yes, I was running rich as hell (Jim's fuel mod+Supra injectors may have something to do with this) so can you guess how I got this resolved? I got the car (come on kids, say it with me:) TUNED! yaay!!

So, let the man take the car to get it tuned. If there's a problem, they'll find it and fix it, or find it and tell him what he needs to do in order to get it fixed so he stops second guessing.

[Fletch]

Unfortuately we are all just guessing at what the root cause could be.

Here is another guess. Have a local private mechanic do a compression test on the front 3 cylinders. It should only take 10 minutes, I had it done at some point just for peace of mind after I was at 5.5psi, going through a quart oil every 1500 miles and had 115k miles. Anything over 150psi is probably okay, I was closer to 175psi.

I don't know what to tell you about you power levels. I never had a tune, but I know my car was quick becuase I pulled on a lot of cars and did a few 0-60 runs with the g-tech.

One thing I did notice was a huge power loss (likely due to heat soak) in 90 deg + weather.

[Eye8Pussies]

Ok so maybe is just me but doesn't that translate to something like "G-O G-E-T T-H-E C-A-R T-U-N-E-D!" ?!?!?! (a bit more detailed, but still the same idea)man stop trying to confuse the guy. If the car is NOT performing as expected, yet everything is working and there are no engine parts talking to him saying "here here, look at me! I'm the problem" then he needs to take it to a shop to get it tuned (if you read his previous posts, he said he had done a tune up - which I had to clarify is not the same as getting it tuned, therefore, please let him take it to a shop that can do the dyno to him). I'm willing to bet my next paycheck they will find the problem

Basically, that1mexicanguy's experience is probably either running lean and making the knock sensors go crazy from knock, or running wayyyy too rich and just bogging down the engine to the point where it makes less power than stock.

Yes, I was running rich as hell (Jim's fuel mod+Supra injectors may have something to do with this) so can you guess how I got this resolved? I got the car (come on kids, say it with me:) TUNED! yaay!!

So, let the man take the car to get it tuned. If there's a problem, they'll find it and fix it, or find it and tell him what he needs to do in order to get it fixed so he stops second guessing.[/quote]




To a point, yes....

But then again, what is this forum for then? Whenever somebody comes and asks about a problem, do we just tell them to "take it to your mechanic"?

Sorry, but you may have the money to throw at things, but most of us don't. Most of us also enjoy (as frustrating as it may be sometimes) to work on our own cars and learn from our own work. And that includes trouble shooting and basic tuning.

Since there isn't much that we can do without proper equipment though, we do what we can. Something as simple as installing his SAFCII w/ the knock sensor alarm can help him narrow down his problems.

In your case, running beyond factory spec (4psi) is what caused your problem. Running lean = hard knocking = retarded timing = dumping fuel = bogging = no power. It wasn't because your fuel system was inadequate, but that your ecu was inadequate to supply the fuel needed for 5.5/6psi. Thus the need for tuning. The fact that you didn't blow your knock sensors or have problems at 4psi (I presume?) means that you were the lucky ones whose car performed to spec as intended by toyota for stock boost.

It seems that in his case , he is one of the unlucky ones that has the oversensitive knock sensors (though he's luck he hasn't blown it yet), so regardless of how much boost he has, he will still have problems if he doesn't relocate them or do the wiring to the less sensitive one.

[camrybob]

what are you running for exhaust? could be that you have a restriction (clogged catalytic converter)?

[CamryOnBronze]

he is running a greddy catback, says in his sig...

[Dawgz]

I took the car to a toyota dealership here that has a Mechanic who has a Supercharged Camry. This is the same place Yanks' had his charger installed, reffered by Jim, who works there.

Well to cut the story short, he took the car a spin and did a bypass on one of the hoses and said that something with the vaccume hoses is up, it was installed correctly or something ( i highly doubt that), but wants me to come in on monday, for a one hour charged ($96.00), and he would have it up and running like it should.

I dono what i should do, go have that done, or rewire my ECU to read the two sensors off one sensor or go have my Car tuned @ a dyno shop with a SAFC II.




O also, he said my EGR tube or something is pinched at the nipple where it connects to, its a hose, it was suppose to have a 90 degree connector but since my charger wasnt supplied with all the right stuff, we just hooked it up directly withought the 90 degree connector, which in turn kind of pinches the tube/hose.

this is the best pic i could find for now with the hose, its dark out rite now so the pic would come out crappy if i went out and took it, so ill post a better pic tomorrow.




the hose that is pointed to in red and part of it colored red...

[that1mexguy]

Whenever somebody comes and asks about a problem, do we just tell them to "take it to your mechanic"?

uh when the guy is clueless and we cannot do the troubleshooting, YES! (Note: my answers on this thread are meant specifically to him, based on what we know, if it was someone else, a different thread, then the answer might've been different)

Sorry, but you may have the money to throw at things, but most of us don't. Most of us also enjoy (as frustrating as it may be sometimes) to work on our own cars and learn from our own work. And that includes trouble shooting and basic tuning.

yeah I have so much money I had it sitting in the garage for 6 months til I was able to get it tuned LOL. Look, if he was so knowledgeable he wouldn't be going thru this and woudlnt be asking the same questions over and over (he had PM'd me before and I had told him the same thing). Sorry Dawg, I'm not trying to put you down but in order to help you, you gotta help us by going through a process of elimination, so if everything else has failed then yes, TAKE IT TO A MECHANIC.

Since there isn't much that we can do without proper equipment though, we do what we can. Something as simple as installing his SAFCII w/ the knock sensor alarm can help him narrow down his problems.

Sorry, but you may have the money to throw at things, but most of us don't and these SAFCs aren't cheap either and if my memory serves me right, he doesn't have one. A mechanic (one from a dyno shop) may only charge him $30-$60 to troubleshoot the problem so .... do I need to keep going?

[ProRally Codriver]

Step1. Remove and inspect spark plugs to determine if you were running rich (sooty black) or lean (white) and that your electrodes weren't fried. Also, run finger inside exhaust tip and see if its sooty black meaning rich. Boosting a motor without sufficiently increasing the gas causes lean mixture which is most dangerous for your motor and more likely than running rich. Cease racing people till you've completed all steps. Running lean ith high RPM causes detonation and will hole a piston.

Step2. Do compression test on each cylinder.

Step3. Install next temperature range colder plugs and gap them wee bit smaller than factory. Running on boost, the spark has more difficult time crossing gap because of boosted air pressure blows out as if birthday candle.

Step4. Verify proper ignition timing.

Step5. Check vacuum hoses & intake manifold gasket for leaks while engine is running and giving it gas by yanking on throttle linkage in engine compartment.

Step6. Install SAFC and go for dyno tune. Just going for a dyno tune without completing at minimal the previous steps is a waste of your $.

EGR blockage is bogus. I yanked and totally blocked off my EGR system and car runs no different (just better now not routing heated gases back into engine because less heat).

[Akfahad]

I'd go back on Monday and pay the $96...I'm assuming that's an hour labor rate? Regardless, I'd still do it.